First Boat Purchase - Need Advice!

[windywindy]

Hi!

I am writing this post in hopes to get some advice on my first real sailboat purchase. I’ve got my ASA certification and am a member at a local yacht club where I’ve cut my teeth learning to sail on a 22’ Catalina monohull.

My partner and I’s dream is to buy a catamaran sailboat that we live aboard and cruise the Caribbean for a few years, then circumnavigate the globe for a couple years.

I have been leaning toward the Fountaine Pajot Isla 40 or the Elba 45. While researching all of the cats in this class I have come upon sites talking about the evolution of fully electric motored catamarans (Volvo Elba and FP unveiled a prototype in 2019 that I saw), and I am interested in this evolution and how long people believe it will be before it is viable for blue water cruising.

So, I’m hoping to find advice on the electric cat question, but also just the overall consideration of the Isla 40 or Elba 45 by FP. The livability and comfort seem off the charts on these two boats, but their performance seems pretty good, not great…? I’m sure both will be fine for Caribbean cruising and island hopping, but I want to invest in a vessel that will treat us right on a circumnavigation. So, performance/safety becomes a real priority.

Thanks in advance. I’m new here and very much looking forward to learning more as my family and I embark on this new phase of our life as full time sailors!

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by windywindy

While researching all of the cats in this class I have come upon sites talking about the evolution of fully electric motored catamarans (Volvo Elba and FP unveiled a prototype in 2019 that I saw), and I am interested in this evolution and how long people believe it will be before it is viable for blue water cruising.

Your wait is over, already in production. See silent yachts if you want to order one today. Personally, I think it's hard to beat sails as a means of propulsion, it's been used successfully for quite a while now.
But if you have the cash then all electric is certainly the luxury way to go.

[Rumrace]

If your focus is on electric saildrives I think it’s premature for a long range cruiser.
That said stay tune to Beneteau in Poland and Delhi Yachts.
I believe Toyota Yamaha Yanmar will past by electric drive or become the renewable power source to charge batteries for electric drives.
Cigarettes new PWC @ 64 miles an hour reached the coast guard speed max but 2-3 hours later your in for a charge.
Rand Picnic started off with the crappy BMW i3 battery but are now achieving great range and fast [,PLUG IN CHARGING] something solar has not kept up to.
Meanwhile Toyota managed to produce electricity using salt water passing through and produced liquid hydrogen on board using nothing but battery systems charged by solar, wind, salt, and apparently an array of experiments. The have also fueled a Toyota Yanmar twin i6 Hydrogen boat underway by helicopter.
Japan is not thinking pleasure boats but shipping and every vehicle on their country. Every single Japanese auto maker, engine builder are involved. Yamaha has cast a new Hyroden V8 out of the Special addition V8 that’s Lexus and a few Toyota Pick ups got. In hydrogen marine it’s horsepower with out blower and intercooler is 450hp. About 100hp down from gas but lower RPM torque engine.
Cats I have no opinions but lots of knowledgeable Cat folks here.
I found my children less interested in hanging out with mum and dad every weekend let alone for years. Dads fantasies are rarely inherited. My daughter got way too much hairspray on things. Was a cute phase though. Kids need other kids adults are way too serious. My grandsons and granddaughter hang out with me cause I’m past the serious age.
Truth is all boats are built for 2 people if your lucky like me and married a boatin babe.

[Rumrace]

Oh and Yanmar has hooked up a 3cylinder 130hp Hydrogen motor to a SeaDrive.
They used the same motor in auto racing and got their ass kicked.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

If your focus is on electric saildrives I think it’s premature for a long range cruiser.
That said stay tune to Beneteau in Poland and Delhi Yachts.
I believe Toyota Yamaha Yanmar will past by electric drive or become the renewable power source to charge batteries for electric drives.
Cigarettes new PWC @ 64 miles an hour reached the coast guard speed max but 2-3 hours later your in for a charge.
Rand Picnic started off with the crappy BMW i3 battery but are now achieving great range and fast [,PLUG IN CHARGING] something solar has not kept up to.
Meanwhile Toyota managed to produce electricity using salt water passing through and produced liquid hydrogen on board using nothing but battery systems charged by solar, wind, salt, and apparently an array of experiments. The have also fueled a Toyota Yanmar twin i6 Hydrogen boat underway by helicopter.
Japan is not thinking pleasure boats but shipping and every vehicle on their country. Every single Japanese auto maker, engine builder are involved. Yamaha has cast a new Hyroden V8 out of the Special addition V8 that’s Lexus and a few Toyota Pick ups got. In hydrogen marine it’s horsepower with out blower and intercooler is 450hp. About 100hp down from gas but lower RPM torque engine.
Cats I have no opinions but lots of knowledgeable Cat folks here.
I found my children less interested in hanging out with mum and dad every weekend let alone for years. Dads fantasies are rarely inherited. My daughter got way too much hairspray on things. Was a cute phase though. Kids need other kids adults are way too serious. My grandsons and granddaughter hang out with me cause I’m past the serious age.
Truth is all boats are built for 2 people if your lucky like me and married a boatin babe.

Please could you cite this claim, my understanding is that they have run a vessel on hydrogen however it was not produced on board . I would be interesting.

[Rumrace]

Sure go to Toyota’s site. It a Tri hull boat quite the beast

[Rumrace]

Producing hydrogen is easy. Producing quantities of liquid hydrogen is shocking

[Rumrace]

The 28’ Toyota Hydrogen fuel cell boat is heading for producing along with the car.
The twin they did airborne fuelling with an experiment workhorse and then their floating lab. It’s been working on salt water generators for several years producing the juice to run a hydrogen plant.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Sure go to Toyota’s site. It a Tri hull boat quite the beast

Yes you're right, it is an interesting cat but I note that up to 40% of the motive power is derived from the two large ocean wings, which they say has enabled them to continue hydrogen production while on the move, something it was unable to do prior.

PS. The boat uses electric power, the excess produced during the day is converted to hydrogen which is converted back to electricity as required.
Without the wing sails it would not be nearly as effective, however still interesting.

[windywindy]

I definitely want sails. The only thing I am interested in is potentially replacing the diesel motors on the sailing catamaran with electric motors.

An electric cat w no mast does not interest me. Wind is what I want, but even sailboats need to have props. I just love the idea of those props being powered by solar!

[CarlF]

All of the solar panels you could squeeze on a cat would drive the electric motors less than 1 hour a day. The electric motor route means running a large diesel generator. And the generator hooked to an electric motor use more fuel per mile than a regular diesel.

Solar panels also don't generate enough electricity to run air conditioning.

An alternative is the new "hybrid" drive in the HH44 that is both a diesel engine and an electric motor. The diesel can drive the boat and/or charge the batteries through a large alternator. The electric motor can then run off the batteries for a little while. No diesel genset is needed.

But for your first boat, I'd keep it simple and get two diesel engines and then try to use them as little as possible by sailing a lot.

You will have some challenges getting insurance for your dream boat because you don't have a lot of experience in similar size cats. The insurance company will likely make you hire a captain for the first few months.

[windywindy]

Super helpful perspective. Thank you!

[Rumrace]

Yes it’s the boats third set of sails. These are the first Foil sails used. Then hinge aft.
The constant flow over the salt water generator makes the panels look silly but it should could boil any pleasure craft.
Toronto sends night time energy to air pumps to fill huge tanks under the lake which run air powered Dynamos in the morning.
A break wall could produce electricity through wave action and produce liquid hydrogen. The Japanese are bound to make many developments.

The Yanmar with SeaDrive are the ticket for cats. Cheap and cheerful drive line so cheap has dumb things like Vbelts from the 80’s a tractor alternator. Very undependable antisiphon cooling system and very weak clutch design. Their biggest abuse is running one as a generator because the transmission is running hot in neutral. Causes oil expansion seal leaks etc. So of course have a generator. The Yanmar 50hp I think is around $5200.00. So maybe the hydrogen replacement will drop in some day. The advancements in diesel have made it a moving target. Fuel handling is worse than ever.

[Caleb_Grey]

Worry about real things like if you can get and afford Insurance first, then think about pipe dreams later.

[tomsnrg]

There is a small austrian company called Kraeutler Elektromaschinen GmbH building high quality electric saildrives, send a PM or look them up. For reference on electric cruising please look up the Youtube channel Sailing Uma. Electric boats do not yet have the optimal battery capacity to do a 24 hour transfer under engine but this might not be your primary concern while cruising long term.