Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

[RunawayC47]

There were 9 Conser 47 built 3 day charter and 6 Cruising. 1 of the cruise boats was sold as a kit and owner assembled and finished. The day charter gave a single center helm with an open cockpit wall, rotating wing mast, and 1-2 outboards while the cruising have dual helms and diesels with sail drives. Hull #6 is a cruising with the wing mast the rest are aluminum. David Pollitt sailed #6 with the rotating wing mast around the world single handed. He was sailing at 20 knots at times with no sails. He learned how to use warps and define the rig to slow down.

Mine is a cruise version that has been extended to 50' which has eliminated any slamming. The bridge deck clearance went up 2-3 inches and the stern by 6". The rear trampoline beam was also raised an additional 8". The steps and swim ladder are now on the stern. The exit from the hulls is much cleaner with greatly reduced wake. Here is a pic taken during the build.

I have sailed on the Paragon boat in Maui in the high teens and the Barbados boat at 18 knots in 15 knots true wind. The Barbados cat easily pointed to 25 deg apparent. Capt Ron runs the charter in Barbados and it is an excellent sail including swimming with the turtles.



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[beiland]

Originally Posted by Bill Gibbs

I knew John Conser in the old Ventura days, pre-accident. Is he still around?

I met John on several occasions at the Annapolis boat show in 86-87. He was particularly interested in the first Fountan/Pajot to come into the USA, a Louisiane 37 I imported that year. I believe that boat inspired his design of the Conser 47'

...a few pics here...
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1796261


some IMAGES here

[beiland]

Originally Posted by RunawayC47

Yes John is still around and kin Costa Mesa with his wife Gerri. He has been dealing with some heart and tumor issues in the last 2-3 years and has not been sailing much. His last sail that I know of was on The Salty Dawg Rally aboard my cat Runaway a Conser 47 that John helped me stretch the sterns to 50'. He still has a young spirit at heart.

I have learned a great deal about how to make sail boats go fast from John. Many of the ideas he has proposed have been way ahead of their time and may still take many years to become available to the market place. He is still busy designing some new projects. He can be contacted at johnconser@gmail.com.

We all wish him well with his current health issues. He is truly a one of a kind!

I'm glad to hear he is still around,...and still playing with boat designs.

[beiland]

Originally Posted by solarbri

Hey RunawayC47,
For those of us who have tried to find info online about the Conser 47 to no avail, would you kindly offer some info for the masses?
Headroom in the salon/pod?
Headroom in the hulls?
Bed length?
Bridge deck clearance?

Thanks. I'm 6'7" and would love to know just how I would get along on one of these puppies.
Can I stand anywhere besides out on deck?

I'm 6'4", and I could not stand straight up in the central 'pod' of the Louisiane. But I could in the hulls, and there was a BIG double berth in each hull.

One of the most challenging aspects of marketing this boat to the public was the fact that you could not enter the hulls directly from the central saloon, but rather had to utilize the cockpit 'walkway' between the hulls. I suggested to a good number of interested parties that a soft cover could be fabricated for use while in port.

The abbreviated deckhouse meant much lower windage, and made a much more streamline vessel that the current crop of larger multihulls available at that time.

[beiland]

another old posting I found

Conser 47' Narrow hulls & Low freeboard - Boat Design Forums

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Hi Barry,
I think you have done a very good analysis of this vessel design yourself. It has long thin hulls for performance purposes, and those narrow transoms are there to help keep her bows from being overpowered. Of course we've learned over the years its not so much these broad sterns that push the bows down, but rather the tall sail plans themselves.

John Conser (great guy) showed up at the Annapolis boat show with his 47' design s year or so after I brough the original 37' Louisiane into the USA. I always kidded him that he just wanted to build a larger Louisiane....after all we already competed with his 27' Warrior cat design and the 27' Stiletto we were representing .

You have to remember in those days (1986-87) there were very few choices in larger 'production' multihulls....mostly the British Prouts, Catalacs, Catfisher, etc both john and I thought these 'stoddy old designs' were part of the problem in getting the mostly monohull world to give a look at multihulls. We needed something sleeker, less boxy, lower windage, more sail area, more performance.

John developed the 47, I picked out the F/P Louisiane 37 from France. Both of these designs are really more of a 'coastwise' type rather than open ocean. In order to keep that low profile, sleek look they were designed with low bridgedeck clearances,...certainly too low for open ocean use,...and too 'slender' to carry cruising loads. (BTW I do assume you are seeking some 'cruising attributes' in this new vessel you are considering?)

Unfortunately I never did get a chance to sail a Conser 47', so I am not a source of 'first hand onboard experience'. I did get a fair amount of time on the Louisiane I brought into the country....somewhat similar hull shape, but much less taller rig in comparison. One incident I might relay; I had a big light-air asymmetrical reacher built for her, and on one occasion when returning from the big Governor's Cup race down the Chesapeake Bay, we had some BIG gusty weather coming upon us from the stern. It was bright daylight conditions so we could observe how this rapid moving weather played havoc with the many monohulls that followed us, many of them flying their chutes. Peter Wormwood and myself made the calculated decision to leave that big reacher sail up and just square it off to the stern wind. WOW, what a ride. It literally felt as though the boat levitated out of the water by a half a foot or more and took off up the bay. (I've offered this real time experience to a few naysayers that claim that spinnakers and headsails can ONLY result in the bows being driven downward).

Peter Wormwood was the designer of the Stiletto 30 catamarans. The second one built after the first production prototype was a custom one called Mirage. She carried a taller performance rig designed special for a client in New York. The 30 was lenghtened 27 hulls, spread farther abeam, and with blister cabins extending to the inboard sides. Thus she was a little bit heavier than the 27, but with the same slender hulls and low freeboard. I raced on her on several occasions, and she was a treat to sail. If I remember correctly there were several other of these hi-perf 30's built and raced at the Stiletto Nationals down in Sarasota. FL. I don't recall any pitchpoles....maybe a couple of bow stuffings and a couple of overturnings in gusty bigger winds during all out racing.

Back to the Conser 47'. I look at these two quotes by you;
1) "I'm Ex Tornado Olympic so I can tame Cats in a blow..."
2) "...alright is not a word I allow into my sailing requirements."

I would think the Conser is a good choice for you.

But if your interest is to take it offshore on some cruising expeditions, I don't think it will handle the extra loading that well. For cruising performance I might make two other suggestions for you...but they are both larger boats:
1) Indigo--a beautiful 65 footer designed by Peter Wormwood for the original owner of the Mirage 30 footer
RunningTideYachts, Ltd. Photo Album of Design References Page 1

2) Wild Vanilla--the original Dudley Dix 55 footer was built pretty light by a gentleman (for his own use) who manages a lot of the Gunboat production cats She is pretty lt-weight, and as yet not over loaded. I think she would give surprising performance even with her relatively fat hulls and transoms.
DH 550 Plywood Cruising catamaran

more IMAGES of DH-550

...and a few shots of Stiletto 30, Mirage

[RunawayC47]

Indigo looks great and reminds me of the Shuttleworth 50. We raced a Shuttleworth 50 open on Runaway in the Around Long Island Race in 2003. We took the start by 60 seconds and the finish by 60 seconds straight out. We raced the finish upwind heading west down the sound totally even from Port Jefferson to Glen Cove.

I was truly impressed with my Conser as the Shuttleworth is 50x35 with no salon, retractable outboards, 85' carbon rotating mast, dagger boards and 13k weight. The Conser is 47x24 twin diesels with mini keels, salon, 65' aluminum mast and 18k weight.


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[multihullnz]

There is a Conser 47 moored in Southern California. Been sitting a long time unused. I tried for months to contact the owners. Wrote letters etc, trying to buy her. Has electric motors and a genny. No luck. I bought Lock Crowthers last cat Deguello instead. Design #150 48ft. Slightly more cruise friendly I think. 20+ kts was our top speed on passage from Tasmania to New Zealand, lots of surfs approaching that too. Averaged 200/day on 1400nm passage. Next passage in April to French Polynesia. Uphill.
If someone is interested in pursuing the Conser in SoCal I will happily send the harbor masters info in order to try and make contact with the owner.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by multihullnz

. I bought Lock Crowthers last cat Deguello instead. Design #150 48ft. Slightly more cruise friendly I think. 20+ kts was our top speed on passage from Tasmania to New Zealand, lots of surfs approaching that too. Averaged 200/day on 1400nm passage. Next passage in April to French Polynesia. Uphill..

I sailed on deguello, great boat, like most of Crowthers designs. But all the internet experts reckon you cant do 200 miles consistently without motoring, and I am sure Lock would roll over if you motored too often in his boat.

[beiland]

Originally Posted by multihullnz

...
I bought Lock Crowthers last cat Deguello instead. Design #150 48ft. Slightly more cruise friendly I think. 20+ kts was our top speed on passage from Tasmania to New Zealand, lots of surfs approaching that too. Averaged 200/day on 1400nm passage. Next passage in April to French Polynesia. Uphill.

How about some photos of Deguello.

How much do you think she has been modified (if any) since she was new?

[multihullnz]

Photos, sure, never posted photos, how?
Not much in the way of mods. A step was added to make entry/exit from hulls to bridge deck easier. Also an additional safety rail each side of davits. Then just equipment upgrades as needed. New motors, rig, water maker, solar, sails etc.
Motoring won't give you 200nm a day. You need way more horsepower than a couple 30hp diesels put out.
Geoff Cruse did the survey for me, he sailed/raced with Lock aboard Deguello when new. Said she was pretty much exactly as he remembered. Also said they regularly got her up on one hull!
I also have. Nacra 20, I know a bit about sailing a cat on one hull. I would s#%t my pants putting a 12k cat up on its side upwind, let alone down.

[Training Wheels]

To me, having a fast multihull isn't so much about top speeds. It's about being able to sail in light air. We hate motoring, so being able to sail at 4 knots in 3 knots of wind is marvelous. We'll regularly pass sailboats that are motoring because there isn't enough wind, while we're happily sailing. Some of our best sails are when the forecast is for "light and variable".


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[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

To me, having a fast multihull isn't so much about top speeds. It's about being able to sail in light air. We hate motoring, so being able to sail at 4 knots in 3 knots of wind is marvelous. We'll regularly pass sailboats that are motoring because there isn't enough wind, while we're happily sailing. Some of our best sails are when the forecast is for "light and variable".

+1. I feel that light air ability is of far more use to a cruising boat than top end speed. High speeds are great for short sails, but day after day they can be exhausting.

We just finished sailing down the coast of Baja in company with several monohulls, ranging from heavy displacement steel boats to fast cruisers. We motored far less than the other boats and arrived in La Paz with tanks 3/4 full while most of the others took on fuel in Turtle Bay and Cabo.

Overall though, we were not much faster. We all got here within a day or 2 of each other. Even "fast cruising catamarans" are still cruising boats.

[multihullnz]

first pic post, did it work?

[Training Wheels]

Sweet!

[beiland]

Originally Posted by beiland

I'm 6'4", and I could not stand straight up in the central 'pod' of the Louisiane. But I could in the hulls, and there was a BIG double berth in each hull.

One of the most challenging aspects of marketing this boat to the public was the fact that you could not enter the hulls directly from the central saloon, but rather had to utilize the cockpit 'walkway' between the hulls. I suggested to a good number of interested parties that a soft cover could be fabricated for use while in port.

The abbreviated deckhouse meant much lower windage, and made a much more streamline vessel that the current crop of larger multihulls available at that time.

Found some other images of Louisiane