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Old 04-10-2021, 02:59   #1
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Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Good morning,

during the past couple of years we did a lot of charters on sailing catamarans. Focusing on modells that fits our "idea" of a future purchase. Boats in the 38-42 foot range from the big manufacturers (Lagoon 380,39,40, 450, FP Mahe 36, Lucia, Nautitech Open 40, etc etc).

Now we are getting closer to a possible purchase and i did some research of the steps and things to do pre purchase and during the actuall process of buying a boat.

My question: Is it a possible and/or common procedure when buying a boat to ask for an extended bareboat sea trial of lets say 7-14 days? Just like a regular bareboat charter.

10-14 days was the average time of our charters, and during this time we sailed, motored, moored, anchored and used the boats and all its installed options and equipment intense.

I am far away from beeing an expert, but after 1-2 weeks, we found almost on every boat we chartered a list of little things and a few bigger items that should be fixed before handing the boat over to the next charter customer - OR things we would like to be fixed before we buy the boat... like leaking hatches/windows, broken outboard engine from dingy, problems of watermaker, smoky exhaust fumes, electrical issues, sticky/twisting main halyard, sticky jib furler, ruder problems, autopilot issues, and many more

My idea is, once we found THE boat we would would like to buy, and we aggreed on a price and the purchase procedure, we take that boat out for that extended sea trail. Agreeing on the process of what will happen to possible findings and how they will be resolved.

If, for some reason, the purchase would fail, the charter of the boat will be fully paid by me upon a pre aggreed price.

Is that a possible procedure? Any experience (from buyer or seller) here?

I would love to hear if this could be done and how it was done...

Could such a process reduce the amount/costs of the pre purchase survey?

Thanks in adavance,

John
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Old 04-10-2021, 03:06   #2
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Why would a seller agree to these terms? And why do you feel you need the seller to fix every little thing that you find over a week seatrial? You are buying a cruising boat, its used so there is no warranty. You will be fixing all the small and large issues that show up on the boat every month you sail it for a long time, might as well start early.

In the current Cat market requiring this as a condition of sale will almost certainly mean someone else will buy the boat.
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Old 04-10-2021, 03:27   #3
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Hi Paul,

thanks for your reply!

I dont want to have every little thing fixed. It is about the more serious items i could find on a 7-14 day turn. Things that might be overseen from a 1-2 hour survey sea trial.
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Old 04-10-2021, 04:06   #4
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

There would be insurance, legal and logistical problems with this option and I doubt you will get any owner to agree.
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Old 04-10-2021, 04:30   #5
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

+1 What Noelex said.

I've never, ever heard of that happening - ever.

The closest situation I know of are some cruisers who were considering a catamaran after years in a monohull. They have a wide circle of sailing friends and one couple who were owners of the particular brand they were investigating extended an invitation to sail with them for a week.

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Old 04-10-2021, 04:48   #6
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piscis View Post
Hi Paul,

thanks for your reply!

I dont want to have every little thing fixed. It is about the more serious items i could find on a 7-14 day turn. Things that might be overseen from a 1-2 hour survey sea trial.
A proper survey probably takes a full day by a qualified surveyor. Prior to that, you have probably carefully inspected the boat, maybe multiple times. Then as a final check that things are present and working you do a seatrial. That's pretty much all you get. Asking for more is most likely just going to kill the deal. And is probably going to be seen by the seller as unreasonable.
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Old 04-10-2021, 05:11   #7
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

@piscis,

There is non logical way a seller would let you 'borrow' the boat. Even if there was insurance. Even if you add a licensed master to the mix so there is (in theory) a competent person at the helm.

If the drawer in the galley breaks- who is responsible? Well you could record the condition of the boat before departure..... By the time the owner and you do a full stem to stern walkthrough to document the condition of the vessel... wait for it....


you have done a more complete survey than many surveyors.

Money would be better spent getting a full engine survey by a certified and competent mechanic as well as having a competent sail-maker inspect the sails.
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Old 04-10-2021, 05:25   #8
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Thank you guys.

That whole idea of an "extended sea trial" by the potential/almost new owner came up to me after i found out a couple of boats i was chartering, have been already listed "for sale" on Yachtworld.

I.e. There was a Mahe 36 and two Nautitech Open 40 in Phuket, Thailand listed for a long time, while there were still available for charter. The Mahe was taken out of YW, however, she is still not sold...

So maybe i should approach that task from the other side. If it would be such a boat listed on a plattform like YW AND the boat is still offered for charter, get the charter, make the seatrail before even talk to the seller, and after that start the buying process.

If i would be a seller/brooker, i would be more than happy if a charter customer comes back after a two week sailing trip offering me to buy his already listed boat...

Thanks again!

John
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Old 04-10-2021, 05:52   #9
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Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

No one in their right mind would agree to what you want. Certainly in the private boat market
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Old 04-10-2021, 05:57   #10
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

The other thing is whatís an extended ď sea trial ď going to tell you that canít be ascertained by a proper survey and a normal sea trial. To me it sounds like a ď I donít know what boat I want ď trial. No seller is going to indulge this.
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:00   #11
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piscis View Post
Thank you guys.

That whole idea of an "extended sea trial" by the potential/almost new owner came up to me after i found out a couple of boats i was chartering, have been already listed "for sale" on Yachtworld.

I.e. There was a Mahe 36 and two Nautitech Open 40 in Phuket, Thailand listed for a long time, while there were still available for charter. The Mahe was taken out of YW, however, she is still not sold...

So maybe i should approach that task from the other side. If it would be such a boat listed on a plattform like YW AND the boat is still offered for charter, get the charter, make the seatrail before even talk to the seller, and after that start the buying process.

If i would be a seller/brooker, i would be more than happy if a charter customer comes back after a two week sailing trip offering me to buy his already listed boat...

Thanks again!

John
Not sure why you would limit your search to boats currently in charter. Plus, the sellers could accept an offer while you are flying to Thailand.
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:09   #12
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Forget about that. You’ll be lucky to get any boat you find right now if it’s priced right because of the increased demand. You’ll possibly be out bid or beaten to the purchase by someone who put down their deposit faster.

Also, forget that in any other time as well. Nobody is giving you a free charter. And that is how any seller would see this.

Stick to the standard procedure
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:16   #13
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

It's a seller's market. There is no way in the world that a seller in this market is going to want to deal with a buyer as demanding and as high-maintenance as you appear to be. Be prepared to accept standard operating procedure with regard to contracting and vetting your potential purchase. Also be prepared to pay close to asking price and not get many concessions from the seller. If the boat is decent and you balk at it, he will happily (and probably quickly) sell the boat to another buyer.
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:54   #14
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

So the seller is going to tie up the boat for a month or two of prime sales season...so you can detail everything wrong with it in excruciating detail to either negotiate a lower price or walk away.

Your average private seller isn't in the charter business.

PS: limiting yourself to charter boats that are also for sale...limits you to typically poorly outfitted and heavily used boats.
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Old 04-10-2021, 07:41   #15
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Re: Extended sea trial on pre catamaran purchase

Thank you guys for all your input!!!

Just to clarify a few things:

Quote:
Not sure why you would limit your search to boats currently in charter. Plus, the sellers could accept an offer while you are flying to Thailand.
I do not limit to charter boats. However, a lot of boats i had a look at did come from charter. And i am most of the time in Thailand... so no extra flying there once i found a boat. If i would buy in the Med, the boat would need to go to Thailand anyway... Caribean is not an option at the time...

Quote:
No one in their right mind would agree to what you want. Certainly in the private boat market
Same here. Most of the boats i am looking for comming out of charter or are still in charter. Hard to find private owned boats never beeing chartered in that range.

Quote:
Forget about that. You’ll be lucky to get any boat you find right now if it’s priced right because of the increased demand. You’ll possibly be out bid or beaten to the purchase by someone who put down their deposit faster.

Also, forget that in any other time as well. Nobody is giving you a free charter. And that is how any seller would see this.
Maybe... but read my initial post. I do not want a free charter. If i would not buy the boat after that extended seatrial, i would need to pay the full amount of the pre agreed charter costs... no risk for the seller and no risk for me getting a lemon


Quote:
It's a seller's market. There is no way in the world that a seller in this market is going to want to deal with a buyer as demanding and as high-maintenance as you appear to be. Be prepared to accept standard operating procedure with regard to contracting and vetting your potential purchase. Also be prepared to pay close to asking price and not get many concessions from the seller. If the boat is decent and you balk at it, he will happily (and probably quickly) sell the boat to another buyer.
Well, at least in SE Asia things seem to be a little different in the past 1,5 years. I talked to a couple of sellers /brookers and what you say does not reflect market situation there at the moment. However, you are surely right. This whole thing might not work for boats sold by owner or other private used boats.


Quote:
So the seller is going to tie up the boat for a month or two of prime sales season...so you can detail everything wrong with it in excruciating detail to either negotiate a lower price or walk away.

Your average private seller isn't in the charter business.

PS: limiting yourself to charter boats that are also for sale...limits you to typically poorly outfitted and heavily used boats.
Both statements are far of what i was talking about. In fact, as mentioned above, i am focusing more to charter boats - but not only. And i am having no problems getting a poorly fitted boat without solar, genset, watermaker, code 0, from charter.

To be honest, i would prefer a standard optioned boat just ready for charter without all that stuff. Reason is simple: I would have to pay premium for a 5-8 year old watermaker, A/C and genset. I would prefer to buy that options new (if i really want that stuff at all) and outfit the boat with then brand new equipment by myself... Sorry OT, but just because you mentioned that...

Anyway, i think i get the point. What i suggested is highly uncommon, if not impossible...

So i will see how the first charter company reacts when i knock at their door asking for something strange like that...


Thanks anyway!

John
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