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LittleWing77 · 07-02-2022, 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Grit we are just a cruising yacht and the closest we get to foiling is when we wrap our garlic bread in tin foil before chucking it on the BBQ.
I forgot there are two types of cat owners out there. You have the sailors like Blake and Knox-Johnston that lifted a hull while we were out watching them in Wellington harbour. Then you have the grape juice and bikkies set that are more interested in keeping the salt spray of the bling than anything else.
Cheers

Fore and Aft,

I was lucky enough to do a team selection trial on Enza once (when Tracey Edwards bought her from Peter Blake for her round-the-world, all-women attempt).

We got her going 32 knots up and down the Solent, slaloming around everyday sailors underway at 5 knots or so - probably scaring the bejezus out of them.

It was absolutely incredible, but I couldn't imagine maintaining speeds like that continuously for months...

LittleWing77

sailorboy1 · 07-02-2022, 04:59

if it is on the internet it must be true

Able Lincoln

Tupaia · 07-02-2022, 14:08

https://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/

Great for kids unfortunately wiki now gives it a way and kids believe everything in wiki.

rhubstuff · 07-02-2022, 14:21

Are we talking about hull speed or terminal velocity?

Cadence · 07-02-2022, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

https://www.catamaranfreedom.com/the...th-speedchart/

CAUTION, FACETIOUS COMMENTS TO FOLLOW.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the author knows diddly squat about cats...

All you poor owners of Fountain Pajot cats,

limited to half the speed of the lagoon 440.

I'm not saying any of these boats are bad boats, or good boats, but sheesh, where do these numbers come from? Half the speed of a 440?

Can a TS 42 really sail at 35 Knots, outside of survival conditions, or for 5 seconds tumbling down the face of a monster wave? I know they're supposed to be fast, but are they advertising 35 Knots??? I believe their website says 20knots.

Just another steaming pile of misinformation, about cats. I confess, I'm a bit pedantic about comments being touted as facts, being actual facts; but does this website and those like it not annoy you, no matter what you sail?

End rant.

Cheers.
Paul.

Paul, I'd have to agree with your opening statement.

Jenta · 07-02-2022, 15:02

I see 3 possible scenarios with regards to me personally:

Option 1. My 440 is a fast boat and I should be proud.

Option 2. I don't know how to sail my 440 because I'm not reaching 20 knots.

Option 3. This information is based on someone's guess, and a very bad guess at that.

Our top speed so far not surfing was 13 knots out the inlet at Cumberland Sound in Georgia at what should have been slack tide (though I cannot confirm as my speed wheel was seized) We were running engines as we turned in to the main channel heading out and when we saw 12 knots we were like - oh hey, the engines are still running at 1800 rpm. Turned them off and our speed increased. It was exhilarating and we were still a bit green (ie. Likely over canvassed for that heading) - but that seemed about as fast as I think I would ever actually WANT that boat to go!

(And yeah - option 3 is my vote, though option 2 is certainly a reasonable assumption!)

GRIT · 07-02-2022, 17:57

13 Knots is pretty darn respectable. What was your wind speed, and angle of attack?

Thanks for posting your real world numbers.

Cheers.
Paul.

Kd9truck · 07-02-2022, 18:16

Funny I was crewing a Oyster 56 off Hatteras in early Nov, with a fleet of about 25-30 vessels in a small weather window (mostly cats) we were motor sailing with a full set including the staysail, the engine at 1300 RPMs averaging a little over 7 knots in 9 knots of wind from the 160°- 165° range and we were passing cat after cat from the 35 ft to 55 ft range. While doing so I was wondering how ? I had herd cats on average do 2x the speed of a sloop?
Sometimes things look Faster in the rear view?
Anyway, I’ll keep keeping on with my “not blue water” production knuckle dragger
Cheers

smj · 07-02-2022, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Funny I was crewing a Oyster 56 off Hatteras in early Nov, with a fleet of about 25-30 vessels in a small weather window (mostly cats) we were motor sailing with a full set including the staysail, the engine at 1300 RPMs averaging a little over 7 knots in 9 knots of wind from the 160°- 165° range and we were passing cat after cat from the 35 ft to 55 ft range. While doing so I was wondering how ? I had herd cats on average do 2x the speed of a sloop?

Sometimes things look Faster in the rear view?

Anyway, I’ll keep keeping on with my “not blue water” production knuckle dragger

Cheers

So you passed some cats while you were motor sailing in 9 kts of wind in a 56’ Oyster. Is that supposed to be a good thing? And I don’t believe anyone was comparing speeds of monos vs multis in this thread until you brought it up.

GRIT · 07-02-2022, 18:40

I'm partly to blame for joking with Fore and Aft. It's a slippery slope.

It would be nice if we can save our vitriol for the author of the offending web page, instead of starting that age old argument of monohulls and Cats.

Mea Culpa.

Cheers.
Paul.

Kd9truck · 07-02-2022, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

So you passed some cats while you were motor sailing in 9 kts of wind in a 56’ Oyster. Is that supposed to be a good thing? And I don’t believe anyone was comparing speeds of monos vs multis in this thread until you brought it up.

SMJ ? (you made the comparison), Spit that hook of agitation skip, I gave the conditions of my personal experience to support the theme of the OPs post

“Don’t believe everything you read…”

As it pertains to the speed of “multis”

Cheers mate.

PippaB · 07-02-2022, 20:59

I think I’ve got them all beat, I have a couple of OpenCPN tracks that show my SOG > 2000 knots. And not just once

. Not bad for a 20-year-old, 48’ cat.

It was exhilarating dropping down to the Equator and back to 48N in the space of two sampling intervals. Surfing doesn’t even begin to describe it. And I have the evidence on a computer, so we know it really happened. After the first time I had to install the WIG lights so I was sure I could comply with COLREGS.

Jenta · 07-02-2022, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

13 Knots is pretty darn respectable. What was your wind speed, and angle of attack?

Thanks for posting your real world numbers.

Cheers.
Paul.

We had only been on the boat for about a month and I didn't pay as much attention to things like that then compared to now, but from memory and a couple pictures I would say the true wind was around 120 on the port and a fairly consistent 20-23 knot range as we made the final turn around 25 degrees to port into the main channel heading straight out.

That brought the true wind forward but still slightly aft and we shut down the engines and then were like - woah.
We jump up to 13.x knots and maintained that for almost 4 miles. The water was so calm because there was such little fetch given that we were in an inlet which no doubt was a huge reason we could keep the speed at that level. 3 miles out from the inlet in the open the full wind was more like 25 knots, but we were headed North to Wassaw Inlet so we headed up higher into the wind and slowed down under 10 knots for a while but that was plenty fast for us!

For the record our tables say to single reef the main for 25 knots and having a square top makes that even more true I imagine. If we were doing that today, we would have raised the main with a single reef to start. That would have allowed us to properly trim quickly for up to 35 but it was fortunately not gusty that day anyway. But I don't think that would have affected our speed that day. Other than the fact that I still haven't figured out how to keep the foot of the mainsail from being a baggy sloppy mess when reefed.

That was a bit of a unicorn for us, but as long as we're not fighting against the wind or dealing with square waves - 7-9 knots is not unusual.
We feel like we're succeeding if we're getting half of TWS up to 10 knots boat speed. At that point we aren't likely to want to go faster even if we could unless it is relatively calm seas and consistent wind or current that is giving the boost on a downwind sail.

It's taken a couple years, but I keep working on passage planning and understanding not only what we want for a passage, but also what the boat wants, even for a day hop. I used to dampen our polars in Predict Wind by 20-30 percent but what I found was that I was handicapping myself out of an accurate forecast because I would end up ahead of the prediction or arrive early and mess up my tide timing for an inlet. Some of that gets eaten up by the fact that if we're head to wind and a bit bashy, we need to occasionally turn and run downwind so the dogs can/will go forward to the trampoline so their business doesn't end up in the saloon.

Bopping around in the Bahamas with good wind direction, I would guess we're usually 6-7 knots in 12-15 knots of wind. Oh, and we love our flybridge in Bahamas! Less so when it's raining and waves are crashing over the saloon in the Atlantic - but we still prefer it.

Okay - that was WAY long winded but it's a trait of mine I can't turn off. That, plus we're in Oregon visiting family right now while the boat is on the hard in Virginia waiting for us to come back and finish up projects to head North to Maine this coming summer. And I'm jonesing to be back on the boat!

Apologies for the novel.