Differences between Lagoon 440 and 450

[dowgas]

I have been following the forum for quite a while now and are now looking at buying a cat. We have been aboard and sailed the L450 but not the L440.
As there are many more 440's out there, clearly there is more choice and prices are a fair bit down on new or nearly new 450's. Other than age. what are the main feature upgrades on the 450 that are not apparent on the L440?
Any advantages on the 440 that are not on the 450?
Not that I am saying it is, BUT, if money was no object should I buy the 450?

[impi]

For me I think it depends on what you are doing with your boat. The boats offer very similar 'on board lifestyles' and at the end of the day it really depends on what you are looking to get out of your boat. There are features in both that Ana and I wished we could take from each and build into a new model simply because we spend most of our time onboard and have personal preferences that make life a pleasure. On our 440 we have done some modifications to make things more practical. For example, we removed the cockpit cabinet and had a taller one built by a professional Swiss cabinet maker so as to have the washing machine fit. It is terrific to have this feature and looks really good ... if I dare say ... better than the original. Something small but irritating on our 440 is the back lower step which has a slide out ladder. This is too low to the water which is great for swimming onto and off the boat but since it is submerged gets a lot of 'sea growth' to it which is very difficult to clean. We are pretty meticulous about our boat so spend a lot of time scrubbing this area, but many 440's we see out here have this and it really does not look good. I must admit, having sailed on both boats, the totally sealed roof over the cockpit of the 440 is terrific although access to the upper helm on the 450 is easier. The choice will always be personal to the things that matter most to you. Sail on both of them in varying wind and weather conditions ... walk about on the boats ... it is amazing how small things count in a rolling sea, like hand rails and what to hold onto when entering and exiting a cabin etc. etc. ... and then of course how the boat feels to you whilst resting at anchor. I think that generally speaking, this is how one should go about looking at boats no matter which you buy. In any event there are many other factors to consider which I could not possibly list here ... spend the time on both boats ... well thats what we are doing anyway on the bigger Lagoons just incase we grandchildren start featuring in our lives

[Lucky Larry]

When we bought our 450 Lagoon had stopped production of the 440. We were in the market for a new boat so the 440 was not an option. There are only two aspects of the 440 that we wish Lagoon would have carried forward to the 450: The sink in the cockpit would be nice. The roof over the cockpit does not keep the rain out of the cockpit due to the stairwell cut outs.

While the price was a consideration for us, we walked onto every catamaran at the Miami boat show and are convinced that even if we would have had unlimited funds, we would still have chosen the 450. It is the right boat for us.

We recently added the full cockpit enclosure from Lagoon and it makes a huge difference in our ability to use the cockpit even in a downpour.

The next significant modification will be replacing the door and window frames which separate the salon and cockpit. The latching and locking mechanism is extremely poor and requires frequent adjustment. Lagoon should be so embarrassed by it that they should offer to retrofit all boats with that design at no cost to the owners. But, of course the French can't possibly admit their mistakes even though they have fixed this issue on the new 450s.


Lucky Larry

[Lagoon4us]

Haven't sailed the 450 however have had conversations with various owners and their main comment was concerning windeage, the higher slab side being an issue to them.

I prefer the 440 racked back transoms and the two height side deck that tends to ship water away from the open hatches.

The cockpit sink is a big plus as is the 'rounded' corners to the interior cabinetwork.

The enclosed aft cockpit feels right to us.

Yes i'm happy with our boat, if offered to swap for a 450 with the same gear i'd decline as i prefer the lower profile, just a matter of aesthetics i guess?

Cheers Frank

[dirkdig]

We have a 440 and have looked at buying a new 450,so i have spent a bit of time on this.

1. Big weight difference between the 2 with the 440 being 4 tonnes lighter,how this effects performance between the 2 i am not sure
2. Proper seperate showers on the 450 is a big improvement
3.sharp corners look good on the 450 but in a bad sea we get a few bruises with rounded corners on our 440
4. We use the outside sink a lot so its a big plus on the 440
5. The forward seating area on the 450 is smaller and not as user friendly as the 440
6. The deal killer for us is the holes in the rear cockpit roof where the flybridge access is on the 450? Why put holes in a roof and let water in
The rear cockpit is a very popular space at sea and anchor and with rain and waves able to pur in there for us just ruins the boat.
Just a very poor design and a big big backward step.
7. Water storage on the 450 is only 300 litres where the 440 has 900, we dont have a watermaker and its been fine,with the 450 you will need one for sure.

For the money you can not go wrong with either,great boats.
The 440 is awesome and cheaper so that would be my pick again.

Also dont expect and back up and after sales help from Lagoon,just the mention of it to them is offensive.

[2Wind]

I can only add a biased view as my experience is only with the 440. I think it is true that the 450 looks very sharpe/modern internally. Aside from the colours the square edges generate that look. As stated, looks and function are not neccessarily the same and the rounded edge is safer. I agree with the above comments about weight and in particular about the utility of the aft cockpit in the 440. We have all meals there, it is a magnet for passengers, especially those who want out of the wind and weather but don't want to be enclosed. You don't need full enclosures to remain dry in a rain shower. The trouble with new, is it never remains so and there is always a new, new coming soon. I gave up on "new" some time ago. I drive a near perfect 17 year old Porche turbo whose valve has remained unchanged over 10 years. New offers me the opportunity to simply loose more money faster! At the end of the day these purchases are all about "love of" and "feelings". They are not neccessities. Buy what moves you provided it fits the budget. You won't be disappointed either way, I'm sure.

[Lucky Larry]

I agree with the pros listed for the 440. If Lagoon was still producing both the 440 & 450 it would not be an easy choice. Or if we were buying a used boat now we would have to list the pros and cons on a spreadsheet with weighting factors after conducting a finite element analysis... No, wait, those are my work thoughts.

We would have preferred the rounded corners in the cabinetry, but I wouldn't trade away the showers or the vast amount of storage (the 440 has a lot of storage as well) in order to have rounded corners.

We really enjoy the sun pad area forward of the fly bridge, at anchor and underway (on a nice day). We like the generator forward location in the 450.

We looked at the Lagoon 52 and there are definitely aspects of that boat that are enticing, but we think that it may be just a bit on the big side for how we would use it.

[dirkdig]

The 440 or 450 is plenty of boat.

We are converting one of our 440 heads into a stand alone shower to make it more comfortable.

The rain/ water coming into the rear cockpit is plain wrong, why put holes in a roof???

[dowgas]

Originally Posted by impi

For me I think it depends on what you are doing with your boat. The boats offer very similar 'on board lifestyles' and at the end of the day it really depends on what you are looking to get out of your boat. There are features in both that Ana and I wished we could take from each and build into a new model simply because we spend most of our time onboard and have personal preferences that make life a pleasure. On our 440 we have done some modifications to make things more practical. For example, we removed the cockpit cabinet and had a taller one built by a professional Swiss cabinet maker so as to have the washing machine fit. It is terrific to have this feature and looks really good ... if I dare say ... better than the original. Something small but irritating on our 440 is the back lower step which has a slide out ladder. This is too low to the water which is great for swimming onto and off the boat but since it is submerged gets a lot of 'sea growth' to it which is very difficult to clean. We are pretty meticulous about our boat so spend a lot of time scrubbing this area, but many 440's we see out here have this and it really does not look good. I must admit, having sailed on both boats, the totally sealed roof over the cockpit of the 440 is terrific although access to the upper helm on the 450 is easier. The choice will always be personal to the things that matter most to you. Sail on both of them in varying wind and weather conditions ... walk about on the boats ... it is amazing how small things count in a rolling sea, like hand rails and what to hold onto when entering and exiting a cabin etc. etc. ... and then of course how the boat feels to you whilst resting at anchor. I think that generally speaking, this is how one should go about looking at boats no matter which you buy. In any event there are many other factors to consider which I could not possibly list here ... spend the time on both boats ... well thats what we are doing anyway on the bigger Lagoons just incase we grandchildren start featuring in our lives

Thanks for your thoughts /input. Just a thought on your ladder, can it be anti-fouled or copper coat anti fouled?

[dowgas]

Originally Posted by Lucky Larry

When we bought our 450 Lagoon had stopped production of the 440. We were in the market for a new boat so the 440 was not an option. There are only two aspects of the 440 that we wish Lagoon would have carried forward to the 450: The sink in the cockpit would be nice. The roof over the cockpit does not keep the rain out of the cockpit due to the stairwell cut outs.

While the price was a consideration for us, we walked onto every catamaran at the Miami boat show and are convinced that even if we would have had unlimited funds, we would still have chosen the 450. It is the right boat for us.

We recently added the full cockpit enclosure from Lagoon and it makes a huge difference in our ability to use the cockpit even in a downpour.

The next significant modification will be replacing the door and window frames which separate the salon and cockpit. The latching and locking mechanism is extremely poor and requires frequent adjustment. Lagoon should be so embarrassed by it that they should offer to retrofit all boats with that design at no cost to the owners. But, of course the French can't possibly admit their mistakes even though they have fixed this issue on the new 450s.


Lucky Larry

Good point about using cockpit in the rain. Without that cover it would be not so good.
Locks/lagoon......i am sure they are embarrassed but blood out of a stone comes to mind?

[Lagoon4us]

We have no issues with our transom/sugar-scoops being in the water the round of the scoop is about 50 mm clear of the water.

We carry tools etc at the locker at the mast base BUT also only have a 6Kva gen-set so maybe that helps.

I'm all for converting one toilet en-suite to a stand alone shower, it's stupid on an owners version having two toilets on the one side.

Will watch with interest.

[dowgas]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Haven't sailed the 450 however have had conversations with various owners and their main comment was concerning windeage, the higher slab side being an issue to them.

I prefer the 440 racked back transoms and the two height side deck that tends to ship water away from the open hatches.

The cockpit sink is a big plus as is the 'rounded' corners to the interior cabinetwork.

The enclosed aft cockpit feels right to us.

Yes i'm happy with our boat, if offered to swap for a 450 with the same gear i'd decline as i prefer the lower profile, just a matter of aesthetics i guess?

Cheers Frank

what did they put in place of the cockpit sink on the 450. looked at their website but cannot see.

[dowgas]

Originally Posted by dirkdig

We have a 440 and have looked at buying a new 450,so i have spent a bit of time on this.

1. Big weight difference between the 2 with the 440 being 4 tonnes lighter,how this effects performance between the 2 i am not sure
2. Proper seperate showers on the 450 is a big improvement
3.sharp corners look good on the 450 but in a bad sea we get a few bruises with rounded corners on our 440
4. We use the outside sink a lot so its a big plus on the 440
5. The forward seating area on the 450 is smaller and not as user friendly as the 440
6. The deal killer for us is the holes in the rear cockpit roof where the flybridge access is on the 450? Why put holes in a roof and let water in
The rear cockpit is a very popular space at sea and anchor and with rain and waves able to pur in there for us just ruins the boat.
Just a very poor design and a big big backward step.
7. Water storage on the 450 is only 300 litres where the 440 has 900, we dont have a watermaker and its been fine,with the 450 you will need one for sure.

For the money you can not go wrong with either,great boats.
The 440 is awesome and cheaper so that would be my pick again.

Also dont expect and back up and after sales help from Lagoon,just the mention of it to them is offensive.

Proper separate showers would please the wife and daughters!
Does seem strange to add " angular " furniture on a boat.
Water getting to rear cockpit appears to be a big issue with a few!
300 litres cannot possibly be enough on a 4 heads boat? water maker should be fitted as standard. i guess once they raised the weight they then had to reduce it?

[Lagoon4us]

Owners versions are the go they have three heads but still 5 showers counting the swim showers at each transom, 300 litres is dumb.

It's been a while since i was on a 450 but from memory the one i was on in Croatia had installed another fridge as the cockpit one was inadequate for the amount of crew ie 6-8. A sink in the cockpit is a godsend, cleaning up after fishing etc.

[DavefromNZ]

A couple of points re the L450:

There is 750 ltr water by selecting that option at purchase. Most will fit the 100 ltr/ hr water maker and that takes out a water tank leaving 525 ltrs.

We have drop down side clears on the cockpit and step covers. The cockpit is dry and it is roomier than the L440 including another double bunk/lounger. The front cockpit appears to be the same size. The top deck squabs are a great idea and very popular to lounge around on. The separate showers with perspex doors are great.

I think we are about 17t. But performance feels good to me. We have a square top main and we would mostly sail around 7-9 kts. Motor on one engine at 2600rpm at 7 kts and 2 engines at 8 kts. At 3200 rpm 9 kts. With a following sea we do accelerate well. See photo for max speed. Very stable on auto helm.

Dave