Delusion in the older Multi-Hull Market

[Sailing August]

There is no end to the delusion in the older multi hull market. We went to look at a multi hull project vessel in Saint Augustine, Florida last weekend.

The 30 year old catamaran had been on the hard for 5 years. The owner started to do a refit but stopped with no projects completed. The vessel had no engines or sail drives. No electronics, no functional sails. The generator had been removed and was gone. The standing rigging was 30 years old. The running rigging was completely rotted. No batteries. Nothing. Nothing on the vessel was functional.

We checked the value of vessels of a similar year (early nineties) and size. We found 10 similar vessels for sale that did not need a major refit. During the inspection we made a list of all the items that would need addressing for this major refit.
- 10 vessel current market average value was $150k. (no major refit required)
- The owner wanted $150k for the Saint Augustine catamaran (as is).
- Refit scope of supply and cost estimate for the Saint Augustine catamaran was $145k (its going to be more.....it always is.)

Even if they gave us the hull for free; the major refit cost would likely exceed the current commercial value of the vessel itself.

We offered the owner what we considered a generous "scrap value" offer for the bare hulls. They of course rejected the offer because they are more driven by their dreams than any semblance of financial reality.

These deals have to make financial sense.

The older catamaran market is driven by dreams and delusion. Owners always believe that their vessel are worth more than they are....especially the scrap vessels.

Its a shame, because this vessel will likely never see the water again, joining all the other vessels in the forgotten boat yard of broken dreams.

S/V August

[MicHughV]

Go to Green Cove Springs if you want to see "broken dreams"....there must be umpteen boats on the hard in various stages or rot and decay and general abandonment. I doubt some of them have had any human being on them in years.

Are the owners keeping up with storage payments, I tend to doubt this. It'a boat graveyard.

But, if you're looking for a "fixer upper" might be worth a trip out there.

[CaptTom]

This is not uncommon. People think their old junk is worth what they paid for it, or more. Not gonna happen. So it sits.

I drove past an abandoned boat in someone's side yard the other day. It was an old catamaran, my guess would be late 60's or early 70's. The kind with a tiny cocoon of a sort-of cockpit/cabin in each hull. I was thinking how far multi hulls have come since then. Nobody would want that thing, even if it weren't obviously rotting away for many years.

[Sailing August]

I know what you mean. We live close to Green Cove Springs and the hundreds of vessels that will likely never see the water again.

[MicHughV]

I personally know some of the boats up on the hard in Green Cove Springs. I know that they have been there for the best part of 35 years.
35 years....you couldn't sell those boats on a good day. No idea what GCS marina plans to do with them. I guess they probably own them by default to cover storage fees.

Fixable ???...maybe, but it would take a month of Sundays just to clean them out and several years of rehab to get them going again.

There are probably a dozen boats there under various stages of repair or rehab. Will they ever go anywhere ??...hard to say.

If I was 20 years old again, with time to burn.....I would give it a crack...

Having built my first boat, I know first hand that it becomes a journey of blood, sweat and tears and not a few dollars....

[01kiwijohn]

sooo......next!

[trifan]

Is this any different than the old car/truck out back? Or the RV? People are just like that, not able to look past what it is "worth" in their mind. Been there, done that. Finally woke up one day and said this place looks too redneck, even for me and made the scrap yard and my wife much happier. The neighbors still haven't recovered.

[JasonS]

Have to love “ALWAYS”. There are many owners of older catamarans that use, upgrade, and upkeep their boats, and spend the associated dollars, and when ready to sell will never recoup what they’ve spent.

You might want to look at boats in this category. You might spend more upfront, but spend less in both the short and long run.

And no, our boat is definitely NOT for sale ����

[sailingchiro]

I thought we received a great deal at $20k for my boat. I have put in over $90k in engines, rigging, mast, sails, electronics, hard top, refrigeration, solar, Lifepo4, etc. I now feel good about our boat but have about as much as we would buying a good quality boat with good qualities.

[sailingchiro]

Oh, and our boat is not for sale.

[Sand crab]

I checked YW, CL and couldn't find the OPs boat. Just curious on the make. Care to make that public?

[Kd9truck]

This is not just a multi-hull issue.
Every buyer wants a deal and every seller wants to recoup some of the equity invested. It seems every boat yard has a section of derelict vessels. I love looking at them and seeing there original state though the decay.
We are all delusional one way or another, it’s a condition of being human, I let them keep there dreams and move on. Offering way below asking is not an insult.

[SVPP]

Originally Posted by Sailing August

There is no end to the delusion in the older multi hull market. We went to look at a multi hull project vessel in Saint Augustine, Florida last weekend.

The 30 year old catamaran had been on the hard for 5 years. The owner started to do a refit but stopped with no projects completed. The vessel had no engines or sail drives. No electronics, no functional sails. The generator had been removed and was gone. The standing rigging was 30 years old. The running rigging was completely rotted. No batteries. Nothing. Nothing on the vessel was functional.

We checked the value of vessels of a similar year (early nineties) and size. We found 10 similar vessels for sale that did not need a major refit. During the inspection we made a list of all the items that would need addressing for this major refit.
- 10 vessel current market average value was $150k. (no major refit required)
- The owner wanted $150k for the Saint Augustine catamaran (as is).
- Refit scope of supply and cost estimate for the Saint Augustine catamaran was $145k (its going to be more.....it always is.)

Even if they gave us the hull for free; the major refit cost would likely exceed the current commercial value of the vessel itself.

We offered the owner what we considered a generous "scrap value" offer for the bare hulls. They of course rejected the offer because they are more driven by their dreams than any semblance of financial reality.

These deals have to make financial sense.

The older catamaran market is driven by dreams and delusion. Owners always believe that their vessel are worth more than they are....especially the scrap vessels.

Its a shame, because this vessel will likely never see the water again, joining all the other vessels in the forgotten boat yard of broken dreams.

S/V August

I think you would have known all that before visiting the boat. Did you ask them what they wanted for the boat before visiting? Did you check the market before going to see the boat? All you did was waste everyone’s time and yours. The market is hot right now and the owner can ask whatever they want for it. By inspecting the boat, all you are doing is reinforcing the fact to the owner that the boat might be worth something.

[Danm1]

It doesn't matter if it is a cat ot mono or house or car. I look at stuff at anywhere near my top dollar figure (maybe 50% more) and offer what it is worth to me based on my analysis. I have had offers countered and rejected, but can't remember anyone being truly offended. It's not wasting time if you are a serious buyer, only if you are window shopping.

As for all those older boats lying around in yards, it is a shame. I guess it is easier to stop paying yard fees and walk away than even sell for a dollar once a hull gets to a certain age or condition. Plenty of supply if someone could figure out an economical reuse

[onestepcsy37]

brokers are guilty too. we once drove 90 miles to see a boat that the broker advertised as 'cruse ready'. the interior of the boat was pretty much torn apart. owner obviously rebuilding, rewiring, and replumbing. i would have pushed the broker overboard and into the canal but he had driven us the last ten miles from his office to the boat and i had no idea how to get back...