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Old 10-12-2024, 03:37   #31
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
Sounds more like a barge. SA/D ratio of 24 given the displacement of 16.3T. I am sceptical that the final displacement will even come close to this.
Oh really? 16.25T is the target lightship of the full carbon Kinetic KC54.
(That's heavy because full of creature comfort)
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Old 10-12-2024, 03:47   #32
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
Wow! 25 panels that is over 1/2 a tonne not including the cabling. Can you really fit 11 down each side. Side by side with no spaces that is 12.5 metres of coach roof. Their website suggests only 3.5KW of solar that is about 8-9 Longi panels.
Take 6 of the 700W longli bifacial over the whole width behind the traveller and you have 5kw solar.
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Old 10-12-2024, 04:00   #33
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yes. There is enough space.


The area runs from the bridgedeck's front end (nearly) to the cockpit's aft end (actualy some 3 ft beyond). We decided to leave the central 'catwalk' empty - to manage the boom and sail easily.



Weight is no issue - ask the boatbuilder the weight of a rigid grp or alloy roof from the bridgedeck to the cockpit's end. You will be surprised. I was. We could have shaved more weight going frameless, but from my research frameless ones do not last well, and they also require more structural support over the cockpit area, and so all potential benefit of frameless is gone.



The anchor chain is 12mm which is 3.4 kg per meter. This boat will carry 2*100 m chain. Add two anchors matched to her displacement.


Then think again, a 10 kW genset is about 400 kg, before you add all the attached gear. Then think of the diesel weight NOT required (due to the solar overkill.


Weight is not an issue when you compare with the alternatives (genset, fuel cells, etc). And the power is as I stated. Give or take. 10 kW.


No smoke, no noise. Inductive cooking.


Energy-wise, given how and where the owner wants to use the boat, this will work.



Our big challenge is what battery technology to use. The owner does not want Lithium. Me neither. And the alternatives are all less efficient (worse energy density). So we are kind of stuck. But working on it.


Cheers,
b.
Fully agree. So the solar panel act as roof skin and are integrated? Finally someone doing that...

Regarding batteries why doesn't the owner and you want LiFePo, I thing that's what you mean with lithium?
Well this leaves you then basically with sodium as only alternative.
Lead is a nogo from weight, an AGM bank of that size is far more dangerous then Lifepo4 as they can get thermal runaway so if lead then gel.

LTO bank would be also quite heavy too but at least can be charged very fast, so smaller bank that can take a lot charge and discharge. And it's the safest battery chemistry avaliable till today. Cannot see what the owner should have against that.
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Old 10-12-2024, 04:44   #34
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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Originally Posted by ozolli View Post
Oh really? 16.25T is the target lightship of the full carbon Kinetic KC54.
(That's heavy because full of creature comfort)
This won't be a performance cat and I think they've been pretty clear that that's not their priority. That said, it's got enough water line length that it will still punch out pretty respectable averages off the wind.
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Old 10-12-2024, 05:23   #35
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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This won't be a performance cat and I think they've been pretty clear that that's not their priority. That said, it's got enough water line length that it will still punch out pretty respectable averages off the wind.
Exactly the waterline is still the base of all and 55ft gives you respectable numbers...add big sail area and efficent hulls and you have a fast performance oriented crusing catamaran. And that's what most in reality want to achieve.

And I think you are better off if you buy a 52 till 55ft cruising cat performance oriented instead a 44 till 47ft performance cat. The 55ft will give you the same speeds also because more load capacity, give it dyneema rig and epex sails and that cat will do as well very good numbers.
The old catanas 431, 471 and 521 had really the perfect balance between performance and cruising comfort. Kevlar in the right areas to beef them up, daggerboards and good sail area but not overcanvased as the newer but heavier ones.
Well their open helmstations are not optimal but get a beef autopilot and steer it from the navstation in bad weather is the solution.
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Old 10-12-2024, 05:28   #36
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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The job of an experienced designer is to ensure you get told of all the unknown unknowns.
Somehow Schionnings still have the worst helm stations and ergonomics of just about any cat out there! Surely can't be worse.
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Old 10-12-2024, 06:19   #37
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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Somehow Schionnings still have the worst helm stations and ergonomics of just about any cat out there! Surely can't be worse.
Somehow one can disagree with you
Each to his own taste.
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Old 10-12-2024, 06:50   #38
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

Don't worry, it's cheeky jab. The CM50 is better than 95% of them.
And what I prefer is most certainly not in fashion these day!
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Old 10-12-2024, 07:17   #39
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Re: Delos 2.0 cost

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Don't worry, it's cheeky jab. The CM50 is better than 95% of them.
And what I prefer is most certainly not in fashion these day!
Fashion comes and goes....and the old performance receipt is still valid today.
They just try to trick it by using lighter materials to give you more payload for all the luxury stuff.

Would love to see one of the Graniger Raku design in real life, especially the smaller ones 40 or 44. Looks like old performance receipt with modern lines. And 50ft size we have enough performance alternatives but smaller lack significantly.
https://www.graingerdesigns.net/raku-catamarans/
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