Deal Breakers

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Andrew Grace

The Wife

awwwww... poor baby!! you need to add "Catamaran" to your screening questions for your next wife..

(just joking!!!)

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by scarlet

If they've cleaned the visible surfaces... how would you know it is there?

Look into spaces that are more difficult to clean and hidden from general view..

Smell it. (Possible allergic reaction)

Use a long handled cotton swab.

[UNCIVILIZED]

The Volvo commonality is laughingly ironic, given what they sponsor, sailing wise.

[Thumbs Up]

Volvo Penta is not a deal breaker! (Except maybe the 2003 model). My 2030 series Volvos are actually Perkins and the only "parts" that you should need to buy are oil filters and you can use another brand if you don't want to spring for the Volvo Penta ones. Yanmar saildrives have more corrosion issues and clutch cone issues than Volvo. It is true that there are some crazy priced parts that you might have to replace some time (heat exchanger boots come to mind). Most of the cats that you guys are talking about have Volvos or Yanmars and saildrives. Yes shaft drives are more desirable but most of the cats you are looking at didn't offer them.

[bigpuff]

iv bort several yachts over the years mainly to make a modest profit and keep on sailing with little or no maintenance needed. I have found buying an ex charter mono or cat 5 to 8 yrs old and still in charter are the best buys, they have been kept up to scratch and serviced regally and you would be surprised at the deals one can get .

[Capt Phil]

Three things that have stopped me from buying:
1 smelly, unclean bilge
2 teak decks over 5 years old
3 burned wiring
I have owned about 12 boats from 23 feet to 54 feet, ran my own delivery business for 18 years, lived aboard and cruised for close to 15 years, both sail and power. I believe I know of what I write. Phil

[Dulcesuenos]

No Aluminum boats. Had one once never ever again.
If a boat with sail drives only Yanmar sail drives that I feel are OK are either the older SD20s(pretty bulletproof) or the new Yanmars.
Boats with cored hulls and cored decks with lots of obvious signs of water leaking through deck hardware. I have seen this on dozens of boats. Rotten sashes , bulkheads, corners of cabin soles etc.
Signs of termites, unless its so cheap its hard to pass up.
Boats who were owned by an engineer. ;0) I've had 2 and both had more owner created issues where they thought they could do things better....


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[zerompg]

Scarlet - Which Yr/Fountaine Pajot model did you see the blisters on?

[14murs14]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Any boat spending X years in the tropics with no ongoing maintenance, this is a deal breaker. So that's how we take out 50% of all potential boats all at once. ;-)

Now, more specifically, boats with original teak decks screwed onto grp/plywood or grp/foam structures. Teak over steel too, unless spotless.

Also boats where the engine looks as if soap, rags and touch up paint never existed.

As well as boats with hull to deck joint known to be executed with hope and rivets.

Boats that smell bad. Rusty boats. Dented boats. Boats without mother (boatyard) and father (designer).

Etc.

Disclosure: I do not buy. I assist potential new owners in finding the right boats (= avoiding the bad apples).

b.

I've looked a large number of cats in the 2000-2008 age range, $175,000-$300,000 price range over the last year. If all of the criteria you listed are in fact "deal breakers" then I'd have to conclude that it's simply not possible to buy a cat more than 8 years old, because every single one has had at least one of these "deal breakers" to some extent!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by scarlet

If they've cleaned the visible surfaces... how would you know it is there?

No light cleaning is going to remove mold. it's a major operation and very difficult to hide without total remediation.
Some people (brokers I know) try a light cleaning and then run an ozone generator in the boat for a couple of days.
beware the smell of ozone !

[Terra Nova]

Way before looking for deal breakers you should perform due diligence.

[barnakiel]

Without going into actual details, we agree there may actually be no good buys in any specific size / age / bracket. Huh?

Example: You want to buy a competitive race ready Opti for less than 500 USD. This is NOT happening. A racing sail alone costs you upwards of 500 USD. A race ready competitive Opti boat may cost upwards of 5k.

The same rule applies to bigger boats. Except this time there will be many complicated and expensive systems that, should you insist on them being in a perfect working order, will cost much more than many prospective owners can imagine. That Harken winch at 10k is 10k on the shelf only. Once you chuck in fitting, commissioning and a kit of spares ...

Big boats, big systems, big money. This is ALSO one of the many reasons why some boats are for sale: their owners have finally discovered they can afford to BUY a boat but they cannot afford to have one.

Boats are 'for sale' for a reason. Most often the reason is the dream died, and it died some time ago. Interestingly, nearly every time I come across a boat that shines, one I could steel ... she is not 'for sale'.

A large, possibly major, portion of boats for sale are boats that are some years past their bristol best. They will never again be bristol and will, in their mass, only get worse over time.

No wonder then that when one wants a bracket specific boat, it may not exist, or else be very difficult to find and get. For good boats in bristol condition and priced 'low' sell first. The remaining ones spend months and often years, waiting for another naive dreamer.

Over last ten years or so, I helped to find, survey and buy a handful of boats. The more 'bracketed' the buyer, the less likely the deal. I have zero challenge finding good +50' boats. I have zero challenge finding good boats for less than 10k. Read my lips. ;-)

b.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I have zero challenge finding good 50'+ boats. ;-)

Could you explain? They don't exist at any price? What about 3-7 years old ex-charter catamarans for 700-900k? They also no good? I mean - some repairs/updates are expected, something within $30-50k, which can be negotiated in sale price, or is reality usually worse than this?

[barnakiel]

Exactly. Vide #24.

All we have are opinions.

Nobody buys a 1 mio boat to sell it later at 500k. But this is exactly where many owners end up. Those that understand this sell their boats at 500k. Those that price their boats at 750k do not. Another year passes by.

Brokerage lists are full of 500k boats priced at 750k. Smart buyers recognize the fact. Emotional owners refuse to price to sell. Status quo: brokerage lists are full of 500k boats priced at 750k. Yet another year passes by.

The opposite happens but is fairly rare: a 750k boat priced at 500k. Smart buyers recognize this fact too. There are no such boats on brokers lists. Status quo: brokerage lists are full of ... as years pass by.

Where boats are priced aright, deals are done and boats change hands.

Where boats are priced sub par, they often never get to the lists.

We must agree that there may be some size brackets / prices that good buys simply do not exist.

b.