Cutter-rig

[C--man]

I see a lot of them on Cats

when I went sailing on a Windspeed 40 all that staysail seem to do was foul the Jenny when we tacked.

I did not notice any extra power from the staysail.

Am I missing something?

Thanks guys

[skipmac]

Yes.

Several uses and benefits from the staysail. To me the best is for rough weather furl the jib and sail with reefed main and staysail. More balanced rig and you don't have to go to the bow to change jibs.

The extra stays give a stronger rig.

[roverhi]

It depends on the boat. There needs to be enough space between the stays to make an effective slot and the J needs to be large enough to get enough area for the staysail. On our Westsail 32, we sailed with the cutter rig most of the time while offshore. Without roller furling, the ability to sail from ghosting conditions to a full on gale only having to make one sail change was a blessing. We had a fairly lightweight genoa that we used up to 9-10 knots of wind then the double headsail with a change down to the Yankee that carried us up to 20-25 knots depending on the point of sail. Then drop the jib. We never had to get there, but we could reef the staysail and raise the already hanked on tri-sail if things got really snotty.

Aloha
Peter O.
Pearson 35

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Yes.

Several uses and benefits from the staysail. To me the best is for rough weather furl the jib and sail with reefed main and staysail. More balanced rig and you don't have to go to the bow to change jibs.

The extra stays give a stronger rig.

I'd agree with most of that, and add in that in rough weather having your staysail to work with is very nice. It's about 7' from the bow, so plenty of room and you're not out on the widowmaker.

[Heikki]

For us, sailing with both genny and staysail seems to add a good half a knot of speed when close hauled or reaching. I sure welcome all additional speed. They both have a furling gear, so it is very easy to use. Should one of them suddenly be too much, just reef or completely roll-in the one and you stil have a balanced sail plan. We sure love that. We also value the extra security of two stays.

Talking about the distance of the stays, we also have about 7' clearance on the deck level. Much smaller slot will sure diminish some of the benefits.

[Jim Cate]

On our previous boat, an IOR Mk2 one tonner (retired), we found that keeping the stays'l up actually made tacking the genoa easier if we did the genny first. The now backwinded stay s'l kept the genny from fouling on the inner stay and the baby stay. Once the genny came through, we tacked the stays'l.

When hard on the wind in that boat, the stays'l seemed to neither improve or impair the boatspeed. Once cracked off to say 70 deg or so, it seemed to help in light airs.

Back before the development of good flat reaching kites, lots of racers used a high-cut reaching "jib topsail" set over a stays'l in close reaching conditions, and it seemed to work quite well.

So, there can be advantages to using a double head rig, but it is quite dependant upon the individual boats characteristics. Some experimentation is called for! Can be fun...

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Gladstone Qld Oz

[C--man]

some good feedback.........

Thanks.

[Heikki]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

On our previous boat, an IOR Mk2 one tonner (retired), we found that keeping the stays'l up actually made tacking the genoa easier if we did the genny first. The now backwinded stay s'l kept the genny from fouling on the inner stay and the baby stay. Once the genny came through, we tacked the stays'l.

I completely agree with the method described in the above. You may have already noted that there is an entire thread about this issue. If I recall it correctly, Jim has posted some valuable comments on cutter stay issue on that thread as well:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...sue-23119.html

[C--man]

lots of good reading in that old thread, thanks!

I see this as a good answer to the "hang ups"



It worked well on my boats, two things: tack and dont release the headsail, then release it slowly so it will bulge through the gap before complete release. Also, If you have one long sheet, use it by putting a bend (loop) at the center of the length through the clew and then run the sheet ends through. this makes a nice small knot. Often the big double Bowlines would hang up on my staysail stay....

[Southern Star]

Cman, I have a cutter rig on my cat and, for extended cruising, wouldn't trade it for the now more common fractional rigs with flat-topped mains. Some advantages, as I see it:

1. As already mentioned, the rig tends to be much more solidly supported - mine has 10 separate pieces of standing rigging: the forestay, the staysail stay, twin backstays, plus six shrouds. Compare that to a forestay and as few as four shrouds.

2. Again as mentioned, I have a dedicated staysail/storm jib on roller reefing when the going gets tough. Remember that the weight of dacron on most jibs is inadequate for a true storm sail; further, remember that it is also best in heavy going to move your center of effort not only down, but in; finally, remember most sails retain better shape if only reefed by about 30% of the overall size.

The classic 'Prout', or cutter rig accomplishes all of this and, in most cats, does so with a large slot between headsails to facilitate tacking.

3. The main is smaller and hence, easier to hoist (no need for a power winch), easier to trim and both easier and more effective once reefed (flat top mains have terrible sail shape when reefed, keeping far too much sail area up high).

4. With the cutter rig, my mast is stepped at the companionway bulkhead - this is not only the strongest point on the bridgedeck, but a locationi which permits all lines to be led into the cockpit without the additional friction caused by various turning blocks, etc.

5. The Cutter rig tends to spread the sail area more fore and aft, than up and down; while this reduction in aspect ratio can hurt your performance in certain conditions, it it lowers the center of effort of the sail plan for a given sail area, thereby increasing your resistance to capsize.

Brad

[C--man]

thanks, Southern star-

yes the mainsail is an important consideration in that set-up

eaiser handling is very important to me, sail shape as well.

[Cheechako]

The staysail seems to come into it's own when you can roll up the headsail and carry forward under good control with the staysail and reefed main. On 3 boats, I set my staysail up so it was always hanked on, in a sturdy bag and ready for easy deployment. It's amazing how comfortable you can be in 35 knots moving 7+ knots without a headsail. The boat is upright, you are not taking water in the cockpit and with the boat moving you are not wallowing in the swells. Actually had some of my funest sailing with that setup. Unless you are a pretty big boat, any other use is tedious... except maybe long crossings.