Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2015, 09:37   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailingcouple13 View Post
All my halyards and main and jib are inside right at the helm, I will have my sails down before he gets to his mast.
Who goes to the mast anymore to do anything? (except handle light air sails)

Dave
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2015, 20:14   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 28
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Have you looked at the TPI Lagoon 42? It rarely slams, good protection at the helm, 360 degree visablilty from inside the saloon and easy access to sail controls from saloon or cockpit. Yes, it relies on Eisenglass at the helm, but in the Caribbean, we found that to be just fine.

We have sailed on our TPI Lagoon 42 in the Caribbean, Bahamas and US east coast for 13 years spending 5 to 9 months at a time on board each year. So far, it's the best boat in it's size and price range that I know of for that kind of cruising.
DorisT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 02:24   #18
Sos
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Woods Flica catamaran
Posts: 523
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
I like it. What design is your boat? Photos? Recently Gunboat and another builder have done this but I am not aware of any older designs.
Mike,

Have a look at the Broadblue Rapier 550. Not an older design and not to everyones taste but an interesting concept.


Steve
Sos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 03:13   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 206
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Mike,
It is a Voyage 45 cabriolet. Launched in Oct 2004. Maybe tempted to sell, theres that dangerous 55 Gunboat that has my eye..

Sent from my SM-G900P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1441875977539.jpg
Views:	280
Size:	99.3 KB
ID:	108722   Click image for larger version

Name:	1441876064565.jpg
Views:	247
Size:	85.6 KB
ID:	108723  

Click image for larger version

Name:	1441876142580.jpg
Views:	221
Size:	62.9 KB
ID:	108724   Click image for larger version

Name:	1441876247336.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	69.1 KB
ID:	108725  

Sailingcouple13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 15:34   #20
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 190
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldon957 View Post
First, Disclosure: I have never owned a large Cat sailboat, but I have owned large power boats, and Medium size Cats. I will be looking for a cat in the 42-48' range for my wife & I to take extended 3-6 month cruises on in the Caribbean. Dreams of around the world have pretty much been deep sixed with the state of chaos existing out there.

I have always loved Cat Sailboats, and have come close to purchasing one a few times, but the stars never aligned. I have kept up with the manufacturers, and studied them for about the last 10 years. I have been to many boat shows, sailed on a few, and been on too many to count. I even considered designing my own and having it built by Alwoplast in Chili.

Maybe the fine folks and owners on this site can tell me why the things at the top of my pet peeve list, aren't on almost every boat.

#1 (The most important) Inside Helm with steering & controls for the motors, and a complete nav setup. This is common on almost all medium to large power boats. It is great to be up top in the wind when the sun is out. There is nothing better than a fine day at sea in good weather, and nothing worse than a bad day at sea in crappy weather. I know dealers sometimes talk about enclosing helms with isenglass or similar, but you are still out in the elements, and the seam tear & give way in the high winds right when you least expect or need it. (experience talking here) Simply lower & secure all sails at the approach of bad weather, get inside and secure the hatches. You are dry & warm and not in any danger out on deck.

Full weather protection at the helm is paramount for anyone that is actually going to cruise vs. day sail. To that end I believe cockpit helm stations offer the best of protection, visibility, and low CG and windage vs. flybridge and outboard helms.

Nothing wrong with soft enclosures at all if properly made I have had them last for a decade without problems. Going below in most designs and attempting to pilot from there rarely offers enough visibility and no access to sail handling. Good examples of the right cockpit layout would be, St. Francis, Antares, Voyage, Manta etc.

#2 Flush hatches. Every boater/sailor has stubbed a toe on a hatch. Lagoon 500 was one of the first I know of to have them, followed by the 450 & the Leopard 4800. But they will still have a standard raised hatch at the most forward position.

The problem with flush hatches (mostly developed for racing boats) is there propensity to leak if everything is not just right, since water rolling down the deck can cover it. I have actually preferred to put framed hatches on an actual embossment on deck just to keep them higher then the path of heavy water draining down the deck. Never felt they were a tripping hazard enough to warrant flush mounted hatches.

#3 Bridge Deck clearance Does anyone like the booming sound on the bridgedeck? Most boats seem to only have 2-3' I like 4-5' like on the gun boat.

Gunboats don't have anywhere near that kind of clearance, (look at the new 55 from the aft end) few designs actually have three feet. 32" seems to be a good minimum number for something in the mid 40 ft. range and more is better to a point where it starts to create too much freeboard, I would say for 45-50 ft that would be about 40" max.

#4 I know size plays a roll here, but better access to the engines can be designed. Under the bed? Really? Bleed over heat and fumes when you have to check it? While we're at it, a storage area for dive compressor & tanks. I have seen this done on larger power cats.
I certainly agree a separate engine room has advantages in terms of safety with a true water tight bulkhead. But unless it offers true standing headroom, I would prefer it to be under the bunk since there you would at least have protection from the weather. Most designs that have a separate compartment without the ability to close the hatch are not practical at sea or in inclement weather.
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 15:49   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
Full weather protection at the helm is paramount for anyone that is actually going to cruise vs. day sail. To that end I believe cockpit helm stations offer the best of protection, visibility, and low CG and windage vs. flybridge and outboard helms.
Yes, it is indeed a wonder that I ever make it back alive.

Dave
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 17:14   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 206
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

With my isolated engine rooms with exterior access it's amazing we have not sunk yet. Oh thats right cats don't sink.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Sailingcouple13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 20:00   #23
Registered User
 
Wanderlust's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NSW Central Coast
Boat: Lagoon 410 (now sold)
Posts: 514
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

When I was searching for a boat I was reluctant to consider one with engine access under the bunks. Now that I have such a boat I can say my reluctance was unfounded.

There is no diesel smell in the cabin, and the noise of the engine running is muffled by the insulation and thick matresses. My partner finds she can still sleep with it running. But when motoring for extended times I usually run on just one engine anyway, thus entirely eliminating that issue.

Access is easy. The bedding is 2 separate foam matresses. I remove the pillows, then fold one matress over the other, keeping the bedding intact, then carry the folded bundle out of the cabin. I use straps to keep the assembly as a bundle. Takes only a minute and just as easy to put back. For checking the oil, just fold one matress over the other ... no need to remove.

Sure it would be better at times not to disturb my partner, but that is offset by the ability to work in the protected environment inside. Rainy days are perfect times to do those queued maintenance tasks.

Which is better? For me, it's not enough of an issue to make or break the decision on which boat to buy.
__________________
Steve
Wanderlust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 04:27   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 206
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

I have no problems with engines inside under bunks. I really like the outside access on ours for the ease of service and removal. I can have an engine out and on my dock in just over two hours. The lifting done with the dinghy davit all voyage yachts have.
As an old monohull sailor never had the choice of engine not being inside.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Sailingcouple13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 12:55   #25
Registered User
 
Dave852's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tavernier, Fl
Boat: Outremer 50
Posts: 750
Send a message via Skype™ to Dave852
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

I've had both and both have there pros and cons both ways. For under berth installs: The smell so often cited is a non issue. Less rust on engine as no salt splashes when accessing underway. Weight further forward is always a plus. Con is moving the mattress and residual heat when using that berth. Nice stern lockers available for light items.
For separate access installs: easier access unless in a lot of wave action then it's downright scary to open the hatch especially if there is not enough room to close it after you go down. I hate to see salt water on my engines. Like a lot of features I would not rule a boat in or out over it.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Dave852 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 14:54   #26
Registered User
 
colemj's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,110
Images: 12
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Our engines are under the berths and the berth is hinged in the back and supported by gas struts. Just lift it at the front and the top hinges up and is supported by the struts - lots of room to work, and when the top is lowered all the bedding is intact and unchanged.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 15:06   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Our engines are under the berths and the berth is hinged in the back and supported by gas struts. Just lift it at the front and the top hinges up and is supported by the struts - lots of room to work, and when the top is lowered all the bedding is intact and unchanged.
Mark - do you have mirrors on the ceiling to help illuminate the "work area"?
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 22:03   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: on board, Australia
Boat: 11meter Power catamaran
Posts: 3,648
Images: 3
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Mark - do you have mirrors on the ceiling to help illuminate the "work area"?
I expect he would have Led lighting and headlight.
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 07:17   #29
Registered User
 
colemj's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,110
Images: 12
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Mark - do you have mirrors on the ceiling to help illuminate the "work area"?
There is LED strip lighting around the bottom of the berth - lift the berth and the lights light up the area like daylight. The reading spot lights are also mounted so that they can be swiveled onto any individual point for even greater spot illumination.

Then there is the AC vent right there blowing cold dry air on me while I work (one of the few times we use the AC - and one of the best reasons why we have never torn out the AC system).

Yes, excellent lighting, cool air, protected environment, safe working area, lots of working room, easy access to tool storage, easy access to beer - we really like having the engines inside the boat.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 08:10   #30
Registered User
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cat in New Zealand, trawler in Ventura
Boat: 46' custom cat "Rum Doxy", Roughwater 41"Abreojos"
Posts: 2,077
Images: 2
Re: Cruising Cat Design Pet Peeves - What am I missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Then there is the AC vent right there blowing cold dry air on me while I work (one of the few times we use the AC - and one of the best reasons why we have never torn out the AC system).
AC in the engine compartment? Son of a ......!
__________________
Mike

www.sailblogs.com/member/rumdoxy

Come to the dark side. We have donuts.
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boating Pet Peeves endoftheroad Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 179 31-03-2015 13:39
Pet Policies -World Cruising rosen2477 Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 14 20-05-2013 04:41
Who has a Cruising Pet? MBLittle Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 31 15-04-2013 00:58
Design / Construction Preferences in an Offshore Cruising Cat Southern Star Multihull Sailboats 12 19-11-2010 16:42

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.