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scarlet · 13-12-2013, 08:25

Another poster got me thinking...

What has happened to the base price of NEW catamarans over the last 5-10 years? Are they staying somewhat steady (allowing for cost of living adjustments of course)? Or are the prices changing significantly due to new technology, and popularity? is there a post, or perhaps a site you can go to to get historical prices? (like blue book?)

I've only been looking for a short time, so I don't know what similar cats went for in the past. So, when I see a Lagoon 440... 5+ years old at $400,000.. I can't tell how much it has depreciated. I'm trying to get a sense of cost of ownership... and which cats hold their value better than others.

(note... I do realize that catamaran prices can vary due to the care that has been taken with them, and the improvement/upgrades/equiptment that has been added.. )

Thoughts? speculations?

wincrasher · 13-12-2013, 08:39

Well there is list price and then there is the transaction price.

Obviously list prices have gone up. Question is, have they gone up so there can be discounting? Or has discounting evaporated, or stayed about the same?

What are you seeing as a % off of of list price?

scuba0_1 · 13-12-2013, 09:04

lagoon 39 boat show prices
base 402164
after options around 554775.

lots and lots of options.
i should mention this is a owners version

scarlet · 13-12-2013, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Well there is list price and then there is the transaction price.

Obviously list prices have gone up. Question is, have they gone up so there can be discounting? Or has discounting evaporated, or stayed about the same?

What are you seeing as a % off of of list price?

wincrasher, I don't know... all I am looking at is todays base price for a New one... and then the prices I'm seeing for used ones...

I didn't know the Cat manufacturers offered discounts...

Cavalier MK2 · 13-12-2013, 09:25

Hi Scarlet, don't forget less can be more. While newer cats are more of a status symbol a used Prout can be bought and equipped for less than $100,000. It has already depreciated so you'll get more of your money out if you sell and the $300,000 not spent could go towards actually going places and enjoying them= more years on the water. Marina costs because of narrower beam will also be less etc......There are lots of angles to consider when sailing off into the sunset.

scarlet · 13-12-2013, 09:30

Cavalier... that is EXACTLY what I am talking about!!! My husband and I aren't much for "status symbols".. however, we are definitely concerned with quality... price... and of course safety. Our other consideration has to be "livability" We will be 100% live-aboards, so design, use of space.. equipment, and general cleanliness, and good condition are also a factor...

Sand crab · 13-12-2013, 09:52

You can go to the NADA website and punch in lots of different sailboats and they will give you the price new for that year. There are not many cat builders in there though but you can use these prices and extrapolate data from them.
Boat Manufacturers, Used Boat Values, Prices & Specs for Sailboats | NADAguides

I just did. For instance:
A base list price on a 2000 Gemini was $116,000
A 2010 was $172,000

A 2002 Lagoon 380 was $230,000
A 2008 Lagoon 380 was $288,000

Options change those prices quite a bit just like cars.

Stumble · 13-12-2013, 09:54

Scarlet,

Boats are priced and depreciate much like cars. There is typically a built in discount available except when the market is hot. But once it walks off the lot you can loose a significant percentage of the value the day it's titled.

Catamaran prices have typically been more stable in large part because there are fewer on the market at any given time, and a lot of early cats were home built, home designed, and of questionable quality. I expect this will continue to become less of an issue as more production quality boats come on the used market, but people have been saying this for years and it hasn't really happened yet.

colemj · 13-12-2013, 09:59

NADA is notoriously way low for boats that do not sell >200 boats/yr or so. For example, our 1998 Manta 40 is listed as average retail of $77,000. No way you will ever find one of these anywhere near that price unless it is a write-off wreck.

Mark

Cavalier MK2 · 13-12-2013, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarlet

Cavalier... that is EXACTLY what I am talking about!!! My husband and I aren't much for "status symbols".. however, we are definitely concerned with quality... price... and of course safety. Our other consideration has to be "livability" We will be 100% live-aboards, so design, use of space.. equipment, and general cleanliness, and good condition are also a factor...

Prouts have a good reputation, strong owners groups and have taken people everywhere they wanted to go. That said any boat, including new ones, needs to be carefully surveyed.

scarlet · 13-12-2013, 10:07

soo.. Sand Crab.. I'm out playing on that site... so that gives you 'original list price' (including the options you choose).. right?

That is an AWESOME website!! I'm sooo glad you posted that.. It is going to be invaluable as we begin to shop.. thank you thank you thank you!!

Sand crab · 13-12-2013, 10:24

Just continue past the options list and the original list price is in there. I'm not saying anything about the used prices accuracy as ColemJ posted about. Yes I do want that Manta for $77K!

here's the base price new in 2008 for an L440 owners version.
http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2008...0251622/values

2008 Lagoon
440 OWNER'S VERSION-IB

Base Price $529,632 N/A N/A
Options: (add)
TOTAL PRICE: $529,632 N/A N/A

colemj · 13-12-2013, 11:33

There is still something funky about the accuracy of that site. A 1996 Manta 38 lists original price $30,000 more than a 1999 Manta 40.

Mark

tomfl · 13-12-2013, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarlet

SNIP

(note... I do realize that catamaran prices can vary due to the care that has been taken with them, and the improvement/upgrades/equiptment that has been added.. )

Thoughts? speculations?

Most boats, cats included, are worth what ever a seller is willing to pay. For some folks if they find a boat they like it is worth paying what some would think is an above market price to get a boat and not waste more resources and opportunity time to get on a boat and start living the dream.

On the other hand some folks are always looking for boats and if they spend long enough will find a below market price boat.

There is a lot of agreement that you are better off finding a good sound boat that will need few or no upgrades because upgrades will always costs more than you think they will.

As for the NADA guides they are used by lending institutions to determine how much they will lend on a boat, not what the boat will really sell for. There are also lenders who are more realistic about boat prices and will lend more than the NADA prices, but only if you are a good credit risk.

Another consideration is that there is no such thing as a catamaran. There are things like specific Lagoon models built in specific years that can be set up as owner or charter, and you may be able to get some idea about how it will lose value; but a bigger consideration is how a specific boat was maintained.

A lot of boats have also had a major refit. My cat had almost brand new 9.9 longshaft Yamaha outboards bought in December of 2012 when I got the boat in 2013. A friend of mine has a Gemini with over ten year old inboards and the saildrives are falling apart.

You pay your money and you take your chances.