Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

[Bulawayo]

Hi, we started cruising full time on an Island Spirit 35ft. These are massive inside - albeit not the best upwind. We managed to upgrade to a Voyage 40 (Norseman) then finally to a 45ft. Our kids were born aboard. We are not big on equipment: no diesel gen set, air conditioning etc. Our boats are always kept simple and I learnt how maintain everything on board. Please don’t be put off by others telling you what you must / must not do. Make your decisions based on your comfort levels. My first sea experience was sailing a home finished boat to Rio. It taught me lot. Your budget is more than adequate for eco-living as well. We have met many that cruise on substantially less. I’ll be going back to cruising full time next year (I lost my wife last year) and most likely with my two youngest and the elder ones are at University. You can do this ! Don’t forget that many spares can be bought new/unused from various forums. Carry Nigel Calderd maintenance book and you’ll be able to undertake most tasks.

Originally Posted by tanre

First, let me honestly thank all of you for the quick responses, critiques, criticisms and encouragement. It’s great that some of you have done it in comparable equipment for less. It’s also great to hear that it may be tough going and that some of my expectations are unrealistic. Thank you “Ultra Budget”

To answer all questions about a Cat vs. Mono: it must be a cat. I have spent some weeks cruising on a mono and it is just not the cruising vessel I nor my better half are interested in being on for the long haul. Yes, she would be helping, so it wouldn’t be a single handed operation.

As for a smaller and less expensive Cat…all great ideas and will start to look at a few a bit smaller. As for the size, I am not sold on the 38ft, but I hear crossing on anything less than a 37ft may be tiring.

I am trying to stick with the big 2 manufacturers for cost reasons (the build process/quality, the potential of hardware breaking, the cost/availability of replacement parts, the track record, resale value, etc). Additionally, I have heard many nightmare stories about customs so I am steering away.

Next, I am planning to purchase over the next year and thus allow me to take advantage of some off season deals. To answer one persons questions about finding boats within my range, this is what I found this week:

2003

FP
Athena 38

136,000

Cuba

2003

Lagoon
410 S2

152,000

France

2004

Lagoon

380

160,000

Greece

2003

Lagoon

380

157,000

Croatia

2003

Lagoon

380

166,000

Greece

2005

Lagoon
380 S2

158,000

Italy

2005

FP
Lavezzi 40

158,000

Spain

2004

FP
Athena 38

145,000

Grenada

I am in no rush, so if I keep my eye out and am ready to pounce, I am hoping to get a good deal. I have called on the ones above and some are already under contract.

As for a 4 cabin, 2/3 head…no, I do not need that. In fact, I prefer the owners version, but usually they come at a premium. Usually, the non-owners versions were chartered and thus a bit less expensive. Additionally, I am hoping that during refit, I could find a way to possibly convert some space (and or a head to a full shower).

I don’t intend to moor, just added that to the budget in case we didn’t have other options…a safeguard

Bulawayo, what size was the cat you sailed on? Did you refit it fully before your sea date?

Thank you for the excel spreadsheet on cost over 8 years from Crushr…EXTREMELY helpful. Thank you for The Voyager's Handbook: The Essential Guide to Blue Water Cruising…it is now on order.

As for where I plan to start…that will all depend on where I pick the boat up, but yes, SE Asia is on the listJ)

I appreciate all the comments and hopefully many more re to come to educate me further!!...Thanks all for the well wishes and thoughts.

[getyourbone]

Looking at the numbers you posted, I say add about 50,000 to you ‘going in’ cost and then add about 1200-1500 to the monthly costs and you will be in like Flynn...for a couple years. Then you will likely need a large chunk($25,000?) for additional repairs/upgrades that you incurred since starting out but didn’t feel like/couldn’t afford to fix.

Just my experience...but working with smaller numbers...

I would recommend you downsize boat budget by about 2/3 and plan to use that money to help get you a year or 2 into the adventure with an additional buffer for real emergencies.

[akprb]

I’ll dip my toe in this well one more time :-)

Early advice we got was “buy as much waterline as you can afford.”

Space is one advantage of cats and a 38-40’ cat is definitely more spacious than a 38-40’ mono.

That being said the other advantage is speed (see Catamaran Storm Tactics) and a disadvantage is load carrying.

Back to waterline. Longer=Faster and more load carrying capacity. In addition a “better” ride.

We started out looking for production cats only as well and made offers on a Lagoon 47 and a Catana 47.

Our broker. Don Buckles, also showed us a 50’ custom built in Holland. I poo pooed this at first BUT she was 150-170k LESS than the 47s, 3 feet longer and a few feet wider.

That advice kept ringing and I kept coming back to her.

What I found was everything on her was simpler and built to a much higher standard than a comparable production boat. The finish was not as good as production but that may be an advantage when the reality of long term cruising arrives (grab a brush, some fiberglass or bondo and fix it).

As to parts 99% are aftermarket. From engines to electronics to heads everything could be found in a Defender or West Marine catalog.

So I would encourage you to consider one offs. Look for boats built in a yard, not a back yard, a boat yard :-) Get “the story”, it will be obvious if the original builder was a dreamer or not.

Most of these have been built by folks who have had A LOT of experience and this was their dream boat for their last hurrah (why they are in the 45-55+ range). The hurrah is over, they are tougher to sell and if you are lucky in some God awful location that other buyers can’t get to and the owner does not feel like sailing her back to Lauderdale.

Happy Hunting!

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Hi, we started cruising full time on an Island Spirit 35ft. These are massive inside - albeit not the best upwind. We managed to upgrade to a Voyage 40 (Norseman) then finally to a 45ft. Our kids were born aboard. We are not big on equipment: no diesel gen set, air conditioning etc. Our boats are always kept simple and I learnt how maintain everything on board. Please don’t be put off by others telling you what you must / must not do. Make your decisions based on your comfort levels. My first sea experience was sailing a home finished boat to Rio. It taught me lot. Your budget is more than adequate for eco-living as well. We have met many that cruise on substantially less. I’ll be going back to cruising full time next year (I lost my wife last year) and most likely with my two youngest and the elder ones are at University. You can do this ! Don’t forget that many spares can be bought new/unused from various forums. Carry Nigel Calderd maintenance book and you’ll be able to undertake most tasks.

I am very glad not to have three, or even four, heads. Two joker valves to worry about and service are quite enough.

[Bulawayo]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

I am very glad not to have three, or even four, heads. Two joker valves to worry about and service are quite enough.

We had two heads on our boats - we had no need for more. Our spares included overhaul kits for the pumps.
Once we moved on from our Islad Spirit we bought used Voyagers. As a precaution we rerplace the standing and running rigging. The motors are fully checked by the authorised agents as well. Both these items are substantial costs but we facto these into our offer price.

[weavis]

You cannot afford a boat you cannot maintain.

Fact.

[Olorin]

Originally Posted by daletournier

The island spirit 37 can often be picked up for approximately 130-140k. Well built and the biggest 37 you'll find. Bridge deck clearance isn't the greatest.

I've got an Island Spirit 400, which is the 40' version. Easy for one or two people to handle. We've crossed the pacific on her and lived aboard for 5 of the last 7 years.

I do all my own maintenance and installation of all the systems. I only paid for the diesels to be rebuilt. Using my own labour has greatly reduced the cost of running my vessel. You don't say what your skills nor intentions are in this regard.

I would be happy with the budget you propose.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Olorin

I've got an Island Spirit 400, which is the 40' version. Easy for one or two people to handle. We've crossed the pacific on her and lived aboard for 5 of the last 7 years.

I do all my own maintenance and installation of all the systems. I only paid for the diesels to be rebuilt. Using my own labour has greatly reduced the cost of running my vessel. You don't say what your skills nor intentions are in this regard.

I would be happy with the budget you propose.

I offer backup numbers to Olorin. We own the same boat.

Although we haven't lived aboard as long as them, we have been living aboard for 2 years as a family of five. Even then, I'm willing to bet our budget numbers are close.

[ausaviator]

Have you seen these realistic costs?

https://www.bumfuzzle.com/what-does-it-cost-to-cruise/

[tanre]

You have all given me a great deal of information, so I sincerely thank you. While I dont want the naysayers from stopping my voyage, the info given has helped me reevaluate. I have decided to wait a year and attempt to increase my passive income. My goal will be to gain another $1000-$1500 per month. I believe this is achievable. I set up a specific time frame and also decided that if I do not reach my goal come next year, I am launching anyway and will start out volunteering as crew.

As for doing my own work. I do plan on doing as much work as possible. My skill level is not that high but I have done many things that others would shy away from (installing tile, 26 windows, water heater, boiler, plumbing, rebuilding a carb, etc), so I am hoping some of these skills can translate. Not too good with engine repair or electronics, but normal oil changes should be easy.

Thank you all for the help.

Question: I bought The voyagers Handbook 1998 version and looked at the cost breakdown. Does anyone know if the 2006 version is vastly different with updated expenses?

[sailorcherry]

Um.....no going out or booze budget?! Is this a troll?
J/K! Honestly, why not go mono on that budget? Or smaller older cat, like a Prout 37 or a PDQ 32? Less outlay so more money for the kitty.

I'm one of those people who have met cat owners that went back to a mono (they went with an Island Packet, 38 I believe) they said they did so because they missed sailing. Maybe also they missed the smaller budget too? Mooring budget of $200 is awfully small. If you or crew gets sick you can bet you will most likely need to be in a slip, there goes that budget.

Why not find a stable, beamy mono that sails well at half the purchase/refit price?

[Mr B]

Have you looked at Gemini 105MC, 34 foot long and 14 feet wide,

[Warren Drifter]

I bought a Prout 37 Elite in 2006 and have lived aboard her all the time since. I've logged 43,042 NM that includes a west about circumnavigation. I usually live in S.E. Asia. I have bought new sails, a new propulsion drive, upgraded most all electronic devices and rebuilt the steering system.I do all of the maintenance, mechanical, electrical work myself. I don't carry insurance. I haul out occasionally and this boat lifts the same as a monohull but I often clean & touch up the bottom by beaching. I like to live on anchor but often park in marinas when I do overland side trips.

I keep a good ledger and as of today after 11.4 years, I have spent US$73,508 on parts, spares, maintenance and bottom jobs equal to an average US$537 a month. (That number excludes mooring & marina charges)

I also do depreciation accounting to reflect what my boat is actually costing me if/when/after I sell for some 'wishful' price after computing 'actual' price information sought from current 'asking' market prices.

[carraigdog]

Enjoying this thread, its the difference between the dream and reality

[sailorcherry]

Warren,

As I mentioned I lust after the Prout 37 (in fact also the Quest 33 and most especially the Event 34). I am drawn to the them because I hope to someday canal cruise but I also feel like I could relax as well as physically manage and feel comfortable singlehanding one with the whole mini main set up
If I may ask, what have been your top speeds and in what kind of wind and seastate? Also, what are your avg.speeds/days?

OP - sorry to sorta hijack your thread, however I have noticed over the years that these Prout owners are often very happy and seem to be people who owned other mono's and even cats and found themselves with a Prout. Last I heard they are still the most circumnavigated catamaran. If your wife is not a sailor and more along for the ride she would probably feel pretty comfortable and safe aboard a Prout, knowing to be stout, well built and conservative rig-sail wise, handling the excitement gracefully.

Cheers,
SC

Originally Posted by Warren Drifter

I bought a Prout 37 Elite in 2006 and have lived aboard her all the time since. I've logged 43,042 NM that includes a west about circumnavigation. I usually live in S.E. Asia. I have bought new sails, a new propulsion drive, upgraded most all electronic devices and rebuilt the steering system.I do all of the maintenance, mechanical, electrical work myself. I don't carry insurance. I haul out occasionally and this boat lifts the same as a monohull but I often clean & touch up the bottom by beaching. I like to live on anchor but often park in marinas when I do overland side trips.

I keep a good ledger and as of today after 11.4 years, I have spent US$73,508 on parts, spares, maintenance and bottom jobs equal to an average US$537 a month. (That number excludes mooring & marina charges)

I also do depreciation accounting to reflect what my boat is actually costing me if/when/after I sell for some 'wishful' price after computing 'actual' price information sought from current 'asking' market prices.