Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

[Mr B]

Food, you have to buy it whether your on a boat or not, It wont increase costs because your on a boat,
Get a modern anchor, One that wont drag, Bigger is also better, Spend your time on the hook,
Marina costs will make you cry, They are very expensive so its best to stay way from them,
Gas for the cooker and fridge, One gas bottle lasts about 3 weeks,

What is this refit, Buy a boat with all the bells and whistles already on it,
A bare boat will cost you extreme amounts of money to fit with the gear you need on it,

There are boats out there for sale with everything already on them, Highly maintained in excellent condition, You just have to find them,
Older people giving up sailing, Sailing is no longer their cup of tea, Family troubles, Wanting a different boat, Health issues, Divorce, Lots of good reasons for selling their boats,

I found two like it, Only took me a couple of months searching on the internet,
Ones that fit my criteria and usage, Ones I could sail single handed with out a crew,
One was in Fiji and one was in San Diego, USA, Im in Australia,

San Diego, was a bit too much for me, 12000 miles across the Pacific for my first ocean voyage, Thats pushing my personal boundaries a bit much, Hahahaha
But I can manage 2000 miles, From Fiji, Island hopping, Plan B, was driving it on the motor if my sailing wasnt up to it, I couldnt sail a boat when I bought it,

Cats in Australia are well over my budget, Seawinds, Lagoons, Etc,

$2000-00 Air fare, $1000-00 to pull it out of the water and have an Independant Licenced Survey done with the intent of sailing it across oceans as the criteria for the survey,
Get the survey done before you buy it, even at your cost, Which I did,
Would be the same costs any where,

Anti foul, about 4 years, Sails min 5 years, Change your diesels oil frequently, Min 5000 hours, Its fibreglass, Just keep it clean,
What other annual costs are involved, Near nothing, Other than breakages,
Timber boats need a lot of work to maintain,


So your Annual maintenance costs would be minimal for the first few years unless something breaks,
Then that also depends on how you sail, Fast and furious will break things,
Slow and cruisy, Breaking things is unlikely,

I bought a 34 foot 2002 Gemini with all the bells and whistles, Because I can park it on sandy beaches and still live on it, Flat and level,
3 bedrooms and only one Dunny, Solar, wind Generator, Water maker, Self steering And 3 spares of everything, New on board, Complete cockpit cover, dinghy and motor, Etc Etc Etc,
All Electronic navigation gear was already installed on it,
So I needed to spend nothing on it, It even had a new anti foul done on it,

My costs will be food, Insurance, Internet, (Petrol and diesel, Approx, $100-00 a year,)
And entertainment at towns I visit,

Go in with your eyes wide open, If any thing is or sounds dodgy, Walk away, Keep looking,

Cheers, Brian,

[billgewater]

I started ocean sailing in the late 1970's and spent a lot of time in Darwin - which is on the round the world cruising circuit and is used as the jump off point for many Asian ventures.
Back then (AGGh them old daze!) nearly all the world sailors had small (40 ft was large!) simple mono hulls and used sextants with paper charts. Some had no radio. Autopilots were mechanical wind vanes or home made set ups or non existent. Marinas were rare and anchoring was what you did. Row boat tenders were a common sight. Many boats had no refrigeration. Fishing lures were standard. Dried foods such as potato, rice etc. were common. Herbs on board were common. One French vessel even had chickens in a cage over the stern. Most did their own sail repairs. Oil lamps were not common but were certainly still in use. These small boats were usually "comfy" rather than resplendent. You could cuddle someone, do the dish washing and change an oil filter all from the same place. Heaven. One English vessel (Starfire of Perth) raised comment with its over the stern toilet seat. Best view available and no clogged loos.

It was all an adventure and done on the smell of an oily rag. But there were lots of them.

The couples were invariably young and often had very young children on board. Teenagers were still seen but not often. Teenagers are social animals that generally don't found explorative relationships on a small boat. They need many other teenagers around them to explore relationships. In Darwin, during the dry season when all the sailors arrived, some of these teenagers joined the local off the beach racers as crew.

The sailors would do anything for a dollar. Work in bars, at local markets, pole dancing, selling their own trinkets, helping out other sailors etc. By the time the had reached Darwin from the US or Europe, they had a acquired survival skills and were in adventure mode.
This has all gone downhill due to the relatively high costs of boats, required expensive equipment, outrageous insurance costs and local authority charges.
The cohort of cruisers are now often cashed up retirees with large expensive boats. They are seen by the industry surrounding boats as a deep bucket of available money and the industry certainly know how to siphon it up.

So I see the catamaran as not really a good idea. Too expensive to buy and maintain.
Be very circumspect about marine electronics. Keep it as simple as possible. My own sextant was re engraved in 1912 and served me well. Slow, but I had the time. I am not suggesting that you resort to a sextant as now GPS units are so cheap and you can carry a few back ups. Assess technology carefully.
A reasonably rational approach is that if you can't fix it yourself on board your boat, then ask yourself about an alternative or not having it at all.
Just what to avoid or absolutely "need" depends on who is telling their story. Talk to folks who have done it. Modern is not necessarily better. Best of luck.

[Dave_S]

These guys post their actual expenses each month. Not the same as your case but I good indication of the reality of it.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...at-197607.html

[smj]

You will probably spend what you can afford.
Those with a lot of money will wonder how the hell others can sail on such a small budget.
Those with a small budget will wonder how the hell some spend so much.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by billgewater

I started ocean sailing in the late 1970's and spent a lot of time in Darwin - which is on the round the world cruising circuit and is used as the jump off point for many Asian ventures.
Back then (AGGh them old daze!) nearly all the world sailors had small (40 ft was large!) simple mono hulls and used sextants with paper charts. Some had no radio. Autopilots were mechanical wind vanes or home made set ups or non existent. Marinas were rare and anchoring was what you did. Row boat tenders were a common sight. Many boats had no refrigeration. Fishing lures were standard. Dried foods such as potato, rice etc. were common. Herbs on board were common. One French vessel even had chickens in a cage over the stern. Most did their own sail repairs. Oil lamps were not common but were certainly still in use. These small boats were usually "comfy" rather than resplendent. You could cuddle someone, do the dish washing and change an oil filter all from the same place. Heaven. One English vessel (Starfire of Perth) raised comment with its over the stern toilet seat. Best view available and no clogged loos.

It was all an adventure and done on the smell of an oily rag. But there were lots of them.

The couples were invariably young and often had very young children on board. Teenagers were still seen but not often. Teenagers are social animals that generally don't found explorative relationships on a small boat. They need many other teenagers around them to explore relationships. In Darwin, during the dry season when all the sailors arrived, some of these teenagers joined the local off the beach racers as crew.

The sailors would do anything for a dollar. Work in bars, at local markets, pole dancing, selling their own trinkets, helping out other sailors etc. By the time the had reached Darwin from the US or Europe, they had a acquired survival skills and were in adventure mode.
This has all gone downhill due to the relatively high costs of boats, required expensive equipment, outrageous insurance costs and local authority charges.
The cohort of cruisers are now often cashed up retirees with large expensive boats. They are seen by the industry surrounding boats as a deep bucket of available money and the industry certainly know how to siphon it up.

So I see the catamaran as not really a good idea. Too expensive to buy and maintain.
Be very circumspect about marine electronics. Keep it as simple as possible. My own sextant was re engraved in 1912 and served me well. Slow, but I had the time. I am not suggesting that you resort to a sextant as now GPS units are so cheap and you can carry a few back ups. Assess technology carefully.
A reasonably rational approach is that if you can't fix it yourself on board your boat, then ask yourself about an alternative or not having it at all.
Just what to avoid or absolutely "need" depends on who is telling their story. Talk to folks who have done it. Modern is not necessarily better. Best of luck.

All very good points. And, I think much of it is state of mind, and much of that gets determined by the others around, whom you might emulate. As mentioned above, most cruisers used to be adventurous, largely sef-sufficient folks, many younger than the average cruiser today....Back pack cruising, I used to term it. I was one, singlehanding a 33 foot monohull. I didn't drink or smoke, anchored out, a lot, and didn't eat out much. Life was cheap! And the folks who would approach my boat were cut from the same cloth, so when we did things together, that, too, was cheap.

Now, you find more of the retirees, many of whom don't have much experience, nor self-sufficiency. Instead of almost always living at anchor, they tend to be on a mooring, or, more likely, in a marina. RV cruising, I would put it. Big generators, lots of motoring, Aircon and every modern comfort. Just look at the threads on Cruiser's Forum! Look what people discuss having on their boats!

Neither is better than the other, just different. One used to predominate, now the other seems to. I now have a 45 foot cat, which I run in charter, but also cruise. It's no more fun that the monohull and a great deal more work, but its more comfortable, safer, and capable of handling groups of friends, quite apart from charters. The people who dinghy up, however, are now likely to be people from other similar boats, and socializing with them means doing it the way they do, and that's expensive!

The thing is, there is a middle ground that is not too hard to find, which is for me to have this great cat, but to live more or less like I did on the mono. I have all the advantages of space, comfort, speed and safety. Yes, maintenance, fees, and insurance are certainly much more, but I still don't drink, I still don't smoke, and I still don't have to use marinas or eat that much ashore. I don't have much in common with those most likely to dinghy up to me, those who choose to do so because my boat is a lot like theirs. It may be harder, and I may have to do the seeking, when it comes to finding like minded sailors, instead of being sought. But, that's OK. I mostly sail, just as I used to, and I mostly motor on one engine, which is still way faster than the old monohull, at a very similar cost and with great redundancy. I can sail fast, or I can back off a little and sail for not much more than I used to, on the monohull. I do have a generator and A/C, when I need it or for friends, but the boat can be almost exclusively run on solar, when they are not onboard.

So, while I can fire up all the modern conveniences for friends or charter guests, there is nothing that says I have to live that way, the rest of the time. I have four heads, but don't need more than one. I have six showers, but don't need more than one, etc. etc. The less I use, the lower are my maintenance costs.

I am generally amazed at what people document for food and drink. I currently live in the BVI, an expensive place, and don't come even close to spending as much.

So, my feeling is that the best answer is to enjoy sailing that bigger boat, but to live like I am still on the smaller one, only more enjoyably. And, I absolutely think the OP can make it on his budget, if he does the same. But if he buys a cat, and emulates the majority of folks on cats, then it will be pretty tight.

[mikereed100]

Some thoughts for the OP.

I understand your desire for a cat, but have you considered a trimaran? You can find a Searunner 37/40 for a lot less money than a cat and yet retain a lot of the virtues of a multihull.

Have you considered self-insuring? You can save several thousand dollars a year and it will make you very cautious, which in turn may save you money in repairs and sail replacement.

Be wary of any boat that requires a "refit" as it will be far more economical to buy one that someone else has brought up to snuff. All too often a great deal turns into a bottomless pit.

You've had lots of great advice here so I won't repeat it, but keep in mind that, at your budget you will need the skills to do all of your maintenance yourself, including engine repair, refrigeration repair and rigging. Not a problem if you have the skills, but if you don't your budget could be blown in an instant.

[daletournier]

The island spirit 37 can often be picked up for approximately 130-140k. Well built and the biggest 37 you'll find. Bridge deck clearance isn't the greatest.

[SV Bacchus]

We bought an 04 in excellent shape, lots of recent upgrades and little to nothing to do to it. I am dumfounded every month when I look at what I have spent fixing things that break.

The more complex the machine the more there is to break. Figure high, not low!

[smj]

Originally Posted by SV Bacchus

We bought an 04 in excellent shape, lots of recent upgrades and little to nothing to do to it. I am dumfounded every month when I look at what I have spent fixing things that break.

The more complex the machine the more there is to break. Figure high, not low!

This is a great point. If you have a low budget buy something without all the bells and whistles and don’t plan on adding any. A simple boat is less expensive to maintain than one with all the bells and whistles.

[smj]

Originally Posted by daletournier

The island spirit 37 can often be picked up for approximately 130-140k. Well built and the biggest 37 you'll find. Bridge deck clearance isn't the greatest.

I was also thinking of the Island Spirit 37 as well as the Privilege 39 as being affordable blue water cruisers.

[boatman61]

Moral of the story..
Don't buy what you can afford..
Buy what you can afford to lose..

[LuckyLucky]

I own a Lagoon 380 2003 ( which I have owned from new ) and I spend approximately your budget on maintenance. I spend a bit more on moorings but I use marinas due to being married. I wouldn't bother spending a lot on upgrades as in practice you can buy a lot of toys that you can happily also live without. AIS, a cellphone and an IPad can substitute for a fortune in gear. Likewise AirCon,Watermakers, Radio Gear etc. Just leave it at home. A good tender and a small reliable outboard and perhaps a Barbecue for the back rail are the only useful accessories.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Moral of the story..
Don't buy what you can afford..
Buy what you can afford to lose..

[robert sailor]

Keep one thing in mind..any advice you get from experienced sailors won't be valid if they are not offshore cruisers crossing oceans. It's a different game and much harder on the boat and gear. Every time we have departed to cross an ocean the boat has been in absolutely tip top shape and has been inspected from the top to the bottom but by the time we get to the other side we have a list of repairs and or replacements that amount to lots of work and there is always money involved. Sailboats and gear wear out by the number of cycles they have been exposed to and sailing 24/7 For weeks on end add more wear and tear than than a typical cruiser hanging out in the tropics will see in many years of their type of sailing. Even if you start out with everything new..rigging,sails,overhauled engines etc. Your boat will need a major refit by the time you get back...assuming a 5 year circumnavigation. When we arrived in New Zealand there were many cruisers that chose the same boatyards as us and I think the average boat spent right around 25 grand on their boats to make repairs and replacements. If you want to go cheap with a 38 ft Cat then hang around Mexico/Caribbean or the Med but don't compare that type of local/part time sailing to a circumnavigation.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Keep one thing in mind..any advice you get from experienced sailors won't be valid if they are not offshore cruisers crossing oceans. It's a different game and much harder on the boat and gear. Every time we have departed to cross an ocean the boat has been in absolutely tip top shape and has been inspected from the top to the bottom but by the time we get to the other side we have a list of repairs and or replacements that amount to lots of work and there is always money involved. Sailboats and gear wear out by the number of cycles they have been exposed to and sailing 24/7 For weeks on end add more wear and tear than than a typical cruiser hanging out in the tropics will see in many years of their type of sailing. Even if you start out with everything new..rigging,sails,overhauled engines etc. Your boat will need a major refit by the time you get back...assuming a 5 year circumnavigation. When we arrived in New Zealand there were many cruisers that chose the same boatyards as us and I think the average boat spent right around 25 grand on their boats to make repairs and replacements. If you want to go cheap with a 38 ft Cat then hang around Mexico/Caribbean or the Med but don't compare that type of local/part time sailing to a circumnavigation.

Very true.. a 12,000nm Pacific crossing from Panama to OZ is equal to 12yrs coastal cruising.. for an active cruiser.