Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by tanre

Hello everyone, I am hoping the more experienced sailors will chime in here! I am pulling the trigger and planning to enter the cruising world next year, but am a little concerned that with money being tight I may fail somewhere along the line and wanted opinions. The goal would be to sail for the next 5-10 years around the Globe.

First, my purchase: My choices are a Lagoon 380, 400, or 410 or a Fountaine Pajot Athena 38, Lipari 41 or Lavezzi 40. The year of manufacture I am looking at is 2000 through 2007. My price range is maxed out at 170k with about 30k saved for a refit. After that I will have NO liquid cash and if something happens, I would have 30k remaining in a Roth 401k I could withdraw.

Income: I would have $2300/month passively (rental income plus stocks minus insurance) of which I broke down the following PER MONTH:


Boat Maintenance: 1000
Food: 450
Mooring: 200
Gas: 80
Phone: 60
B0at Insurance: 500


Total: $2290


Now I am aware that the margins look VERY close, but I am also hopeful that I will not be spending $1000 EVERY month on maintenance and that getting a full refit would lower large expenses along the way. I am also aware that there is not money left over for exploration, entertainment, or travel away from the boat, but am hopeful I may be able to earn some money while traveling. I am also hoping to be at anchor often and hopefully avoid a $200/mo charge every now and then, but put that in for the times we need a haul out and to dry dock..

I have always subscribed to the philosophy that where there is a will, there is a way, but I do not have the sailing experience to verify that this is not a complete failure waiting to happen.

I have watched EVERY SINGLE VIDEO out there on cost and it appears I could make it work by comparison. What says this knowledgeable group? Do my estimated costs seem accurate?

Thanks all!

Marinas for cats cost $700 a month in Florada -that's a minimum

[boatman61]

The only one of your selection I would go for is the Lagoon 380.. they do sail and are good singlehanders..
However.. the only one I have found around your max price is an ex charter in Greece at €157,000 and a 2004 model.. so basic equipment, but for me that would be more than adequate.
Next is this at $180,000 http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...on-190433.html seems a good deal and no flying to the EU and all the consequent hassle.
You could find a nice Prout 37 for half the price.. but then its half the performance.
My question would be.. why do you need 3 to 4 cabins and 2 to 3 heads.. thinking of paying crew/charters to subsidise your lifestyle..???
To my mind the rolly mono is grossly exaggerated and mostly by coastal w/end and holidays cruisers.. its rare it been to rolly for comfort for me and on the few occasions it has.. its pretty simple to swing the bow to the swell.. unless of course you've been silly enough to anchor amongst a load of charter boats on 5-1scope for short stays in so called great spots like Jost van Dyke.. but hey.. some like to be with the In Crowd.
Hope you have a successful hunt..

[Bulawayo]

Some interesting posts. We cruised a cat for many years and will back on the water shortly. If the boat is adequately prepared and stocked with appropriate spares, then you’ll Be just fine. We cruised on a strict budget and dreamt about $2k per month. It is very do-able if you stay away from the more expensive locations or at least keep the visits within time frames.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by tanre

Hello everyone, I am hoping the more experienced sailors will chime in here! I am pulling the trigger and planning to enter the cruising world next year, but am a little concerned that with money being tight I may fail somewhere along the line and wanted opinions. The goal would be to sail for the next 5-10 years around the Globe.

First, my purchase: My choices are a Lagoon 380, 400, or 410 or a Fountaine Pajot Athena 38, Lipari 41 or Lavezzi 40. The year of manufacture I am looking at is 2000 through 2007. My price range is maxed out at 170k with about 30k saved for a refit. After that I will have NO liquid cash and if something happens, I would have 30k remaining in a Roth 401k I could withdraw.

Income: I would have $2300/month passively (rental income plus stocks minus insurance) of which I broke down the following PER MONTH:


Boat Maintenance: 1000
Food: 450
Mooring: 200
Gas: 80
Phone: 60
B0at Insurance: 500


Total: $2290


Now I am aware that the margins look VERY close, but I am also hopeful that I will not be spending $1000 EVERY month on maintenance and that getting a full refit would lower large expenses along the way. I am also aware that there is not money left over for exploration, entertainment, or travel away from the boat, but am hopeful I may be able to earn some money while traveling. I am also hoping to be at anchor often and hopefully avoid a $200/mo charge every now and then, but put that in for the times we need a haul out and to dry dock..

I have always subscribed to the philosophy that where there is a will, there is a way, but I do not have the sailing experience to verify that this is not a complete failure waiting to happen.

I have watched EVERY SINGLE VIDEO out there on cost and it appears I could make it work by comparison. What says this knowledgeable group? Do my estimated costs seem accurate?

Thanks all!

With no sailing experience I believe you a jumping in over you head. I like your idea of a spread sheet approach however you are somewhat pulling #s out of thin air. Entirely to much boat for someone with no experience from the aspect of just handling it to you may entirely change your mind as to boat type with experience.

Follow your dream but don't go hog wild at the outset. Best wishes.

[Sailorman Ed]

My choices are a Lagoon 380, 400, or 410 or a Fountaine Pajot Athena 38, Lipari 41 or Lavezzi 40.

Our first cruise was on an older Prout 34 and with just 2 of us, plenty of room. We upgraded to our current 39 ft cat because we wanted more room, especially for guests. While certainly more comfortable, it is a lot more boat, much more space that 2 of us really want. I think that 34-36 is the sweet spot for a single hander and still have room for guests.

I agree with the others that a mono will be a lot less expensive to cruise with, And while you think you want to circle the globe, I think the vast majority stick to a certain area. You could easily spend a couple years in the Bahamas/Caribbean and still not see it all. Unless you are absolutely certain you want to spend a lot of time off shore, take a close look at the Gemini line.

BTW, we could live comfortably on your budget but I can fix anything and we carried a lot of spares.

[Captain Bill]

I've been full time cruising for 7 years and I'm averaging about $20000/year on maintenance. It seems that every year we have one major item that is in the $10,000 range and about ten $1000 items that add up to the rest of it. One year, new sail drives, another new sails and rigging, another new electronics. Last year my 2 year old saildrives needed the transmissions replaced. It was a warranty repair, but ended up costing me $8,000 for associated costs. I also had a mast crack and a boom vang failure, about $1200. A Generator failure cost about $1000, new heat exchanger, $1000, new water pump">raw water pump $400. Note I also found out that the deign life for my saildrive prop shafts is 1400 hours. Cost to replace, $5700 each because they no longer sell replacement prop shafts, only whole lower units. You should note that I only paid about $4600 each for the entire saildrive. I also replaced the solar panels as they were 16 years old and were not putting out much anymore, another $2,000. I am essentially doing a rolling refit. If you replace/upgrade all of these systems you might do ok on $1000/month for maintenance for about 5 years.

[smj]

You post that on the saildrive vs shaft drive thread.

[akprb]

Yes again, that's funny :-)

We did this on a 50' cat. I would not do a circumnavigation on a cat under 40'.

I almost lean to those saying consider a monohull in the 50' range if space is a concern. Plenty of well founded ones that will go for 100K and could do the trip with ease.

Just the mooring allowance of 200.00 will be eaten up in two days at a marina and you will be at marinas.

Of course all that being said you can do what you put your mind to. The thing for me is having enough fun money to do the shoreside excursions, rent a car, enjoy local restaurants, etc. If always stressed on budget just sucks :-)

Read "ultra budget" on blog and all the best!

[boatman61]

Its all down to 'Personal Comfort Zones'.. skills and risk tolerances.. there's those who've done it on 30ftrs.. 34ftrs and L380's successfully.. and there's those who have tried it in larger and failed..
As the saying goes.. 'One mans $#ithole is another mans Paradise'

[comesatime]

Hi Tanre,

Have you considered starting in Southeast Asia?

Your expenses will be low and you could save some $$$ to build up a safety kitty while you sail.

[smj]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its all down to 'Personal Comfort Zones'.. skills and risk tolerances.. there's those who've done it on 30ftrs.. 34ftrs and L380's successfully.. and there's those who have tried it in larger and failed..

As the saying goes.. 'One mans $#ithole is another mans Paradise'

I agree, and would it be unseaworthy to circumnavigate in a catamaran that was 39.5’ long as people think 40’ is the minimum. All these number rules, who came up with the 40 hour work week?

[tanre]

First, let me honestly thank all of you for the quick responses, critiques, criticisms and encouragement. It’s great that some of you have done it in comparable equipment for less. It’s also great to hear that it may be tough going and that some of my expectations are unrealistic. Thank you “Ultra Budget”

To answer all questions about a Cat vs. Mono: it must be a cat. I have spent some weeks cruising on a mono and it is just not the cruising vessel I nor my better half are interested in being on for the long haul. Yes, she would be helping, so it wouldn’t be a single handed operation.

As for a smaller and less expensive Cat…all great ideas and will start to look at a few a bit smaller. As for the size, I am not sold on the 38ft, but I hear crossing on anything less than a 37ft may be tiring.

I am trying to stick with the big 2 manufacturers for cost reasons (the build process/quality, the potential of hardware breaking, the cost/availability of replacement parts, the track record, resale value, etc). Additionally, I have heard many nightmare stories about customs so I am steering away.

Next, I am planning to purchase over the next year and thus allow me to take advantage of some off season deals. To answer one persons questions about finding boats within my range, this is what I found this week:

2003

FP
Athena 38

136,000

Cuba

2003

Lagoon
410 S2

152,000

France

2004

Lagoon

380

160,000

Greece

2003

Lagoon

380

157,000

Croatia

2003

Lagoon

380

166,000

Greece

2005

Lagoon
380 S2

158,000

Italy

2005

FP
Lavezzi 40

158,000

Spain

2004

FP
Athena 38

145,000

Grenada

I am in no rush, so if I keep my eye out and am ready to pounce, I am hoping to get a good deal. I have called on the ones above and some are already under contract.

As for a 4 cabin, 2/3 head…no, I do not need that. In fact, I prefer the owners version, but usually they come at a premium. Usually, the non-owners versions were chartered and thus a bit less expensive. Additionally, I am hoping that during refit, I could find a way to possibly convert some space (and or a head to a full shower).

I don’t intend to moor, just added that to the budget in case we didn’t have other options…a safeguard

Bulawayo, what size was the cat you sailed on? Did you refit it fully before your sea date?

Thank you for the excel spreadsheet on cost over 8 years from Crushr…EXTREMELY helpful. Thank you for The Voyager's Handbook: The Essential Guide to Blue Water Cruising…it is now on order.

As for where I plan to start…that will all depend on where I pick the boat up, but yes, SE Asia is on the listJ)

I appreciate all the comments and hopefully many more re to come to educate me further!!...Thanks all for the well wishes and thoughts.

[Dolphin460]

I have been cruising for 11 years on the same boat. For the last 10 years I have stayed in the Med. My boat was new (cat: Dolphin 460) when I bought her in 2007. I keep very good records and for the last 8 years I have average $4,000 per month in expenses. This number only includes all items spent directly in relation to operating my boat ($23,700/12= $1,975) and food and drinks ($23,600). That adds up to $3,942/mo. This number do not include buying or paying for clothes, phones, internet, airfare, health insurance, owned auto, rented auto, etc. Looks to me like you would be better off finding a used mono that has just been retrofitted where you have everything all ready to go; new sails, standing rigging, paint, etc. In my opinion, I would want nothing less than a bank balance of $10,000 for the unexpected. I hope this helps.

PS. Do not buy unless you have the boat surveyed by someone you hired and not someone recommended by your broker or the boat owner. Make sure that he knows what your sail plane is.

[Toys_with_time]

Originally Posted by tanre

Hello everyone,

Thanks all!

I would suggest adding Seawind 1000 to your list. Although they are smaller they are built very strong, simply fitted out and have outboards not diesels so they should be much cheaper to maintain. Been around for a while so could look at an older model and because they are smalller all the gear costs less. When you are somewhere where it’s cheap to haul you could look at extending it to an XL (plenty on the web to help you with that). They sail well and I have met one solo sailor on his way around the world who was very happy with it.

I would also look at second hand for as much gear as possible. In the UK they have annual boat jumble at Beaulieu which is great - not sure if there is anything like that in the States - but I have found if you keep watching the net you can pick up some great bargains. The US seems much cheaper for most gear.

Whichever way you go I wish you well and may there be fair winds to accompany you.
TwT

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Dolphin460

I have been cruising for 11 years on the same boat. For the last 10 years I have stayed in the Med. My boat was new (cat: Dolphin 460) when I bought her in 2007. I keep very good records and for the last 8 years I have average $4,000 per month in expenses. This number only includes all items spent directly in relation to operating my boat ($23,700/12= $1,975) and food and drinks ($23,600). That adds up to $3,942/mo. This number do not include buying or paying for clothes, phones, internet, airfare, health insurance, owned auto, rented auto, etc. Looks to me like you would be better off finding a used mono that has just been retrofitted where you have everything all ready to go; new sails, standing rigging, paint, etc. In my opinion, I would want nothing less than a bank balance of $10,000 for the unexpected. I hope this helps.

PS. Do not buy unless you have the boat surveyed by someone you hired and not someone recommended by your broker or the boat owner. Make sure that he knows what your sail plane is.

I hope the OP heeds this. The bank balance sounds low to me.