Comparing Sailing Characteristics of earlier Voyage Yachts & Outremers

[AsInTheThird]

Newbie Post Alert!

Hi all and many thanks for providing a ton of info for me to lurk through.

As the nest is almost empty, I plan to spend the next year or so transitioning towards a solo live-aboard lifestyle (some version of this has always been the plan). I grew up on the Gulf Coast and have been landlocked for the last 20 years near Atlanta. I have had enough of the travel by land & air and have wanted to get into the slow & (un)steady life at sea where I can stop & poke around wherever I want without working where to spend the night.

Generally speaking, I put dependability & performance over needing tons of comfort & space, hence why I am leaning more toward performance(ish) cats... but I am not glued to anything as I will adapt to whatever I decide is right enough. I have always worked on every single thing I own so something that needs updates will likely be a better value while forcing me into learning about things I need to be prepared for when chaos shows up (I am sure I'll be learning on the go my entire sailing life but it never hurts to get ahead).

After balancing what I feel comfortable spending for a cat & potential up-front updates, I keep landing on 42-55-foot cats from the 2000-2010 era. (not planning on any extensive docking). When it comes to performance(ish) cats, Outremer pops up more than most. However, I keep stumbling on the mention of Voyage Yachts from that same era being highly regarded (though don't seem to be as performance-oriented while offering more living space). While there is a ton of info on the earlier Outremers (45 & 50/55 standard & light), there isn't a whole lot out there about where the earlier Voyage Yachts fit in, much less in comparison to the Outremers.

I have a ways to go before being locked into a particular catamaran (and am wide open to recommendations), but would like to know if anyone has experience sailing the earlier Outremer 45 or 55 & perhaps a Voyage 500 and could compare their sailing characteristics (solo sailing, speed, light wind, general handling, rough seas, etc.) & dependability (20-year-old hull construction, mast, etc.). The marketing material mentions the Voyage Yachts are good for couples sailing but I couldn't find any specifics as to why or why not they could be solo sailed.

Also, what are some things/issues to look out for with these particular cats? Most of the Outremers have dagger boards, though it seems the (or some of the) 'Standard' versions have keels instead. The Voyage 500 has keels.


Many thanks in advance!

- Trey

[fxykty]

Both are equally suitable for single handing. They are not that different and it really depends on which design philosophy and layout appeals to you more. The Voyage has a much longer (and relatively lower) bridgedeck and more interior space, while the Outremers have a much shorter bridgedeck and less space inside (and are a bit lighter). For sailing, Outremers have daggerboards (never mini keels from the factory) and Voyage mini keels - not much different except for particular points of sail and perhaps storm conditions. And perhaps ability to beach.

For well built fibreglass boats 20 years is nothing. Gear and systems may need updating, but that’s just part of buying an older boat. For that generation of Outremer inspect the main beam under the mast - if that area hasn’t been kept dry then the plywood could be damaged. Otherwise, they’re bomb proof.

[AsInTheThird]

Thanks for the insight and mentioning the potential mast issue on the Outremers. I recall reading about someone having that issue and some suggesting it be reinforced as a preventative measure. I also recall reading Outremers made some changes around 2004, but can't recall if it had anything to do with this or something else.

[Adelie]

Why do you want a boat over 40’?
Especially solo? The kids might visit occasionally but don’t expect to have guests aboard more than 3wk a year.

The bigger the boat the more maintenance to do.

[Tupaia]

Sounds like you are way too early to for you to chose a specific cat.


If you are just getting into multihulls I recommend that you get hold of this book by Derek Harvey.
https://www.abebooks.com/97807136356...0713635622/plp


It gives insight into what is good bad and ugly as far as multihulls go. The pros and cons of bridgedeck clearance, dagger boards, rig layouts, etc etc.

[Tin Tin]

Sounds like a Catana would suit you, as it is a compromise between comfort and upwind perfromance as they have dagger boards. They have good bridgedeck clearance, comfy layout, only downside for some are the exposed exterior helms, much like many (but not all ) Outremers. The Voyage (also Norseman) was and is a popular charter boat built in South Africa, the early models had good sail power to weight but low bridgedeck which many find annoying due to wave slap, many have circled the globe, as have Leopards Lagoons and FPs. The Voyage may be marginally quicker than the other fin keeled cats but will not keep pace with a Catana and certainly not with an Outremer (of same LWL). As a solo sailor, load capacity is unlikely to be an issue so a dagger boarder will likely be fine, it is just the price and age you have to accept.

[AsInTheThird]

Thanks for the replies thus far!

I haven't centered on a maker or length of boat but feel something over 40' will give me more flexibility with unknown avenues in the future (ocean crossings, number of visitors, possible side hustle chartering, place to put my bicycles etc.). Plus, performance, weight capacity, and handling rougher seas increases as you go up in length (generally speaking) so I feel these are close to the sweet spot... but that doesn't mean I won't end up with a 38'. The difference in maintenance costs between a sub-40' & 50' is something I'll definitely need a better understanding of before figuring out what order to whittle down all of my wishlist items in. I'm guessing consumables could easily cost 10-30% more for a larger cat but I will tally that and the other things I'm not thinking of on my spreadsheets of doom

These two brands stuck out (so far) due to their hull construction being known for being some of the most durable (dependable?) in this category... I mean, we're talking 20+ year old boats with a blanketed history here. I looked at this before I began considering size, performance, or layout because if I'm going to live on this thing, I want be as proactive as possible in preventing water ingression and/or having to put it on the hard for long (and expensive) periods of time for hull repairs caused by cheap construction failing.

I'll take a closer look at the Catanas as they are also on the list. Like most complex & expensive items, there seem to be good & not so good eras of each manufacturer, all with their individual quirks... and I know that anything I purchase was once at the mercy of both good and not so good 'stewards of maintenance'.

[Tupaia]

For the era you are looking at probably the best catamaran that FP made with robust construction, yet lightweight, good sailing performance (better than any of their current models) well sorted, (long production run so lots to choose from) and reasonable prices, it would be a Balize 43.

[CatLove]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

For the era you are looking at probably the best catamaran that FP made with robust construction, yet lightweight, good sailing performance (better than any of their current models) well sorted, (long production run so lots to choose from) and reasonable prices, it would be a Balize 43.

How does the Belize 43 compare with the Venezia 42 and Bahia 46 ?
These seem to be more or less similar design .



I haven't sailed any of them . Supposedly some of the FP's were made with PVC foam core, before they switched to balsa. Were any of these 3 made with foam ?
I found somewhat inconsistent data but allegedly the Venezia is much lighter than the other 2, although almost same size as the Belize.

[barnakiel]

I would not agree Outremer are the best cruising choice.


They may be the fastest (if you turn a blind eye to Marsaudon).


From all the mid size, older cats I have been to (and I have been onboard most brands) by far CATANA and Privillege felt best. Well built, comfortable, reasonably fast and with ability to carry some cruising junk along.


Money no object, if I had the money, if I were to buy an older cat, it would be something like Catana 43 OC.


Money no object, fast modern and fun, I would buy a Marsaudon.


barnakiel

[AsInTheThird]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I would not agree Outremer are the best cruising choice.


They may be the fastest (if you turn a blind eye to Marsaudon).


From all the mid size, older cats I have been to (and I have been onboard most brands) by far CATANA and Privillege felt best. Well built, comfortable, reasonably fast and with ability to carry some cruising junk along.


Money no object, if I had the money, if I were to buy an older cat, it would be something like Catana 43 OC.


Money no object, fast modern and fun, I would buy a Marsaudon.


barnakiel

Great feedback! The Cantanas mentioned look like solid contenders. One thing I forgot to touch on is, I am 6'1" (186cm) and it hasn't been easy to tell which, if not all, have enough room to stand up in.

When I hear cruising cat, I think more condo than boat. I don't need a big common area (saloon) and figured a 50/55 foot Outremer would have similar sleeping area/storage/bathroom 'volume' in the hulls as a 45'ish cat with wider hulls.

So a question I have before I nitpick & over-worry about something that is or isn't a significant difference or concern... How does Cantana's & others' foam PVC core construction compare to Outremer's solid fiberglass? I have heard Outremers can be 'beached', which leads me to assume they'll take an impact better than most. I'm trying to consider what a 20+ year old cat may have been through, plus what I put it through over the next 10 to 15 years.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

....
From all the mid size, older cats I have been to (and I have been onboard most brands) by far CATANA and Privillege felt best. Well built, comfortable, reasonably fast and with ability to carry some cruising junk along.


Money no object, if I had the money, if I were to buy an older cat, it would be something like Catana 43 OC.


Money no object, fast modern and fun, I would buy a Marsaudon.


barnakiel

Privilege Are delightful - but fast or even quick, or even moderately performing are nor words you can ascribe to them. The rule of thumb with Catanas, is older the better, the 42 and 42s designed by Crowther are real good things, the more recent boats not so much.

[sparau]

"Consumables could cost 10 to 30% more"
I am curious how experienced people will reply to that and my post but that may be on the low side depending on what you include as consumable?

ChatGpt cost estimate for new mainsail comparing an Outremer 55 vs Schionning 11.6 (36ft).

| Feature | **Outremer 55** | **Schionning Waterline 1160** |
| ------------------------- | ----------------------------------------- | ---------------------------------------- |
| **LOA** | 54.8 ft (16.7 m) | 38 ft (11.6 m) |
| **Mainsail Area** | \~110 m² (\~1185 ft²) | \~60–65 m² (\~645–700 ft²) |
| **Typical Mainsail Cost** | **\$12,000 – \$35,000 USD** | **\$6,000 – \$15,000 USD** |
| **Common Materials** | Dacron, Hydranet, Carbon/Technora blends | Dacron, Hydranet, occasionally laminate

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by CatLove

How does the Belize 43 compare with the Venezia 42 and Bahia 46 ?
These seem to be more or less similar design .



I haven't sailed any of them . Supposedly some of the FP's were made with PVC foam core, before they switched to balsa. Were any of these 3 made with foam ?
I found somewhat inconsistent data but allegedly the Venezia is much lighter than the other 2, although almost same size as the Belize.

Yes the Belize is foam.


The Bahia is over a tonne heavier than the Belize and only marginally more sail area and just doesn't sail as well.
The Venezia is a good choice but still not as good as the Belize. The earlier boats Venezia, Antigua and Fidgi have a speed hump that is hard to push probably due to worries about capsize in those days and their more conservative rigs.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by sparau

"Consumables could cost 10 to 30% more"
I am curious how experienced people will reply to that and my post but that may be on the low side depending on what you include as consumable?

ChatGpt cost estimate for new mainsail comparing an Outremer 55 vs Schionning 11.6 (36ft).

| Feature | **Outremer 55** | **Schionning Waterline 1160** |
| ------------------------- | ----------------------------------------- | ---------------------------------------- |
| **LOA** | 54.8 ft (16.7 m) | 38 ft (11.6 m) |
| **Mainsail Area** | \~110 m² (\~1185 ft²) | \~60–65 m² (\~645–700 ft²) |
| **Typical Mainsail Cost** | **\$12,000 – \$35,000 USD** | **\$6,000 – \$15,000 USD** |
| **Common Materials** | Dacron, Hydranet, Carbon/Technora blends | Dacron, Hydranet, occasionally laminate

That must be the new O55 as the Danson O55 Light has an 80m^2 mainsail. The Standard’s mainsail is about 10% larger. ChatGPT obviously doesn’t look at sail makers like Zoom - 5 years ago an 86m^2 carbon membrane mainsail cost USD12,000 and it’s not appreciably more now.