Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

[Strygaldwir]

My wife originally wanted a galley down boat, but after 2 years aboard she is a galley down convert. Our galley (Privilege) is opened to the salon, so she, or I never feel left out of the socializing. When guest are aboard they can have interaction with us by sitting at the salon table.

What we really get is the feeling of a much larger boat. We have had 7 folks for a sitdown dinner at our salon table. We've spent time on other friends cats that had galley up (Fontain Pajot and Manta) and we always have come away with a sense that our boat was bigger, even though they are just as large, or larger boats. We have noticed that even with a Galley up, there is still not enough room for two cooks in the galley! Whereas, at least the mess that's made while cooking is localized.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Strygaldwir

My wife originally wanted a galley down boat, but after 2 years aboard she is a galley down convert.

Can we presume a "typo", and that you mean galley UP convert?

[Strygaldwir]

Yes, I meant galley down convert! Senility is a terrible thing.

Thanks Gord.

[GordMay]

huh......?

[Strygaldwir]

See, senile!! She originally wanted a Galley UP boat! Trying to do too many things at once.

[smm]

Originally Posted by SettingSail2009

Things I don’t really want:
1. Daggerboards – When you live and sail on a boat constantly in new waters, there is a large chance, no matter how careful you are, that at some point in time you will have “a-touch-and-go” or a grounding. With daggerboards that could mean serious structural damage to the cat.

Hmm.... I've read cruising reports from full-keel-enclosed-prop enthusiasts which feature them running aground every second time they anchor, and other reports from deep-keeled performance cruisers that run years without a grounding. In this, as in many other things, I think that you make the mistakes you allow yourself to make.

Any high speed collision featuring a daggerboard is going to be spectacular. However, if you're spinnaker beam reaching across a shallow lagoon at 4:30pm, well what did you expect?

On a practical level, we discovered that it is easy to use the boards as feeler gauges when motoring into a shallow anchorage. Lower them just deeper than the rudders/props and leave the downhaul uncleated so the boards can rise freelly. When you see the boards jiggle, its getting shallow.

-Scott

[Gordon]

Just click on image for a little more info!

[Stella Polaris]

Originally Posted by Kapena

Africans... All this is MY OPINION and what is important to me.

You raise many good observations about the African cats ... Having said that, there are a few different brands coming out of SA, so I'm assuming you mean the Leopard range.

To turn the attention to Europe, I'm curious to find out what you think about the Fountaine-Pajot's.

What were the key points that won you over to the Lagoons? What are elements you are unhappy with?

[Stella Polaris]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Hi SettingSail2009,good luck and enjoy the decision voyage,half the fun is learning more about the great choices out there.

Hi Gordon, this is definitely a voyage in its own right. I'm really enjoying it though, because with the help of other sailors I'm able to make a better and hopefully more well reflected decision than I would doing it by myself.

Originally Posted by Gordon

We were making the same decision as you and with similar requirements and have ordered the Fountaine Pajot ORANA 44 a new model , to be launched the end of May/July.

Congratulations. Come July, I hope you'll share your experiences with the Orana with the forum.

[db8us]

Originally Posted by SettingSail2009

Thanks Michael, I also like the layout of the S380S2, not to mention the great visibility from inside. I think that makes it a very attractive cat. It weights slightly more than the Broadblue 385 and the Manta 42, making it a quite heavy cat. Since you are an owner of a 380S2, I'm very interested in hearing about how it sails. How do you think it would do as a circumnavigator?

Hi Andreas,

well it is surely not a racer . But it sails well in my opinion and i am often faster than the same sized monos.
I sailed her last year mostly on the northsea like to the UK and i think the boat is absolutly OK for cruising.
I can not yet comment on a circumnavigation, but hey, thiis might change in the next years.

Regards
Michael

[Stella Polaris]

Originally Posted by smm

I've read cruising reports from full-keel-enclosed-prop enthusiasts which feature them running aground every second time they anchor, and other reports from deep-keeled performance cruisers that run years without a grounding. In this, as in many other things, I think that you make the mistakes you allow yourself to make.

I disagree. It's like saying that if you're a careful sailor you'll never have an accident. Things happen that are out of your control: Poorly marked charts, being virtually blind at night, lots of floating debris, or any other unforeseen occurrence that can happen. I feel that by eliminating daggerboards from the list of things I want on a cat, I remove one possible headache. It's obviously not the right decision for you, but as I work my way around the globe, I'll live and sail almost exclusively in areas I've never been before. For my type of sailing I feel that not having daggerboards is the right decision, even if it means reduced windward performance. Especially since there are other good options that allow almost equal windward performance.

[Stella Polaris]

Originally Posted by db8us

I sailed her last year mostly on the northsea

My dad always said: "If you have no problems sailing in the North Sea, you'll have no problems anywhere."

[Kapena]

I looked at a couple of FP's, can't remember the models, but one of them had a cutout in the forward bulkhead that you had to crawl through/over to get to the front berth.

The lagoon had these characterisitics which were of primary importance to me. Good sailing vessel, easy to single hand, proper length/beam ratio, engines accessable from the inside, good bridge deck clearance, single helm inside the cockpit, good visibility from the saloon, proper design of marine heads/holding tank, spacious cockpit, flat side decks and easy access to decks from cockpit, a trampoline....basically a boat which won't put me in jeopardy at any time due to design flaws. The marine head thing is a whole different subject. It puts my sanity into jeopardy.

Things I've had to improve...I built a stainless "arch" on the rear (ama to ama) and have mounted the traveller on top of it with the lines run through blocks to the original position. A stainless frame connects from the arch to the cabin and I have a complete cockpit cover (dark sunbrella underneath and white top). I plan to make it into a hard top next year. Dinghy davits were also added. I also need to run the lines to the cockpit...main halyard, reefing lines. As the boom now rests on the top of the arch I no longer need a boom topping lift. The boat also needs an electric winch...I'm getting older. Hand holds were also added to the saloon and the foot pump for the galley sink was moved to under the stairs (ankle buster and never used). The saloon will easily sit 8 for dinner (galley down) and is spacious. Forward berths are queen size with good storage. Single berth aft is twin size with little storage. Port aft head/shower is large but I wish I had a seperate shower (not enough to move the engines outside). Starboard head/shower is "cozy" but easy to use. Plenty of space and I don't crawl over anything when walking around or other people are on board. Excellent nav station...it's a good boat and a stable platform. In beam seas I keep the speed to 8 knots, on a run I'll push it to the 12 to 15 knot range, conditions permitting. I have gone faster but it's attributed to surfing.

Tons of projects which made the boat a better cruiser but the platform itself has no design flaws which will hurt you or make your life miserable.

[Adaero]

Settingsail2009

Warning this is a rather long post!!
Similar to yourself we are looking for a mid 40ft cat for initially 12 months sailing around UK waters getting familiar with the boat (and ironing out any problems) before setting off. Until recently I had a shortlist of two boats but after a recent charter on a Lagoon 410S2, I am now not so sure. There is a massive difference between seeing one at a boat show or a spec on the web and living on one for a week. This is our refined basic spec: -
Owner version with large head and shower. Bunk must be accessible from the end as we don’t want to be climbing over each other in the night, in the 410 heads my shoulders just fitted in between the wall and bulkhead so I became somewhat wedged in, not good, shower size so I can actually raise my arms above my head without belting my elbow on something.
Galley up (her decision not mine).
Front facing nav station with good visibility.
Cockpit on same level as Saloon with seating enough for 8.
Helm position with good visibility of horizon and sails but some protection from the elements and also the sun when we reach warmer areas. All lines must lead back to the helm, preferably single line reefing, and electric winch on main.
Preferably not dagger boards as adjustment can be problematic when under even minor loads. I read a recent blog of a cat who had just completed a part circumnavigation who said for the effort involved if he done it again it would be on a cat without dagger boards?
Preferably shaft drives not sail drives, folding props and with at least 40hp ea.
Good bridge deck clearance, a minimum of 600mm fully loaded.
Good load carrying capacity but not too heavy unladen. We are looking for a minimum of 12 knots in 20knots of wind at 90 deg app.
Plus numerous others would like to have’s but not necessities.
There will always be compromises so we are trying to stick to this as close as possible.

Our opinion on current models

Privilege.Well built, nicely finished. Proven blue water boat.
Been rejected at the moment by her indoors due to master cabin layout?
Lagoon. 420 looks too heavy but we will hear back when there are a few more in the water. The 440 was my first choice until we got caught in a F9 when chartering the 410. I am not sure I would like to be stuck up on that fly bridge on my own in those sort of conditions but great when you get to warmer climates. Boom height also doesn’t sit right with me.
FP. Like the look of both the Orana and Salina. Use standard size head compartments on the Maestro versions which aren’t big enough. I also cannot bring myself to part with my hard earned cash without seeing something first though.
African Cats 435 Vector. Massive inroads in to weight reduction and therefore speed. Nice layout. Hopefully going for test sail next month.
Broadblue 435. Proven design based on Prout heritage. Well finished, layout is semi custom so shouldn’t be a problem. Question mark about performance? Also due to test sail next month.
Dolphin 460. Can’t seem to find out any info from owners. Never seen one in the flesh so can’t comment too much. Would like to hear from owners.
Catana Beautiful cats but too expensive for me.
Leopard 46. Nice layout but still looks like an adapted charter version. Would like to hear more from owners.
Nautitech 44. I like everything about this boat apart from the helm position. Nothing worse than having no cover or protection in heavy rain . Supposedly it gives the helmsman a better view and feel of the hulls, the jury is out on this for me. Anyone else have an opinion on this?
Dean 441. Still waiting for info.
We have also looked at quite a number of others but too many to list

These are just some of our views at the present time, no doubt these will change again and again over the coming months. Any opinions will be appreciated.
Regards

[schoonerdog]

when you do the test sail on the african cat, let us know how it goes. very jealous.