Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I think a lot of production boat builders use foam because there is still an anti-balsa prejudice with many buyers though.

I reckon the prejudice is that wood rot's, or so the uneducated think.

End grain Balsa and most timber cores used in boatbuilding will rot, some more than others over time, but only if left unatended for long period's of time.

Like rust in a car, see it get it fixed, it'll last for ever.

I have posted on a few other thread's re foam core. In my opinion, foam glass is heavy, jut like 44 ft CC say's, but foam kevlar is light.

Most of the windspeed/supershockwave catamarans [Geoff Cruse/Crowther] use 20mm divinycell, 200gsm kevlar in and out and 400gsm biax on the outside only for impact resistance in a epoxy layup..

These are an incredibly strong and light structure and a lot have done hard miles for many years with no problems.

Dave

[jzk]

Daggerboards.

I think that daggerboards are well worth their inconvenience. In a really bad sea, daggerboards up will allow the hulls to slip sideways.

And, with the boards up, a 55 foot cat can draw 2.5 feet. Not bad.

And, finally, there is the upwind performance.

[philip van praag]

nobody seems interested in the sail plan. dont understand the lack of comment in this aspect as its the main sorce of drive for 30,000 miles it must have some bearing in the type of boat you choose as it also has a big affect on the layout inside. have also posted on this subject in other areas and am getting very little response (this is a sailing forum ? you know the white flappy things above your head is'nt it?) so far it would seem people like lagoon and privilege which have fractional rigs but the replys say masthead for offshore. this appears to contradict, so pehaps this is why no one has mentioned this area to you but i havent been round yet so cant advise you (sorry).

[coachmiami]

This is a fascinating forum albeit has taken me two days to read!

We are in the process of selling our operating horse farm in Atlanta Ga and going back to sea to show our two boys that life. 10 years ago we cruised a 36' aluminum sloop for 12k miles, but I am convinced a cat is the way to go.

Nobody in this thread has mentioned air circulation? I have read several places it can make a huge difference (especially on a sloping forward coach roof) that the lack of opening hatches can make life miserable on the hook as the salon area gets really hot? Is this an issue?

Another topic I personally would like to hear more about is the difference between engines accessable from inside or the aft deck. Smell yes - but what about weight aft, and working in a hole in the deck.

Again very much appreciate this thread for the information shared. It is very valuable for those of us searching for boats instead of working our businesses!

(Anyone want to trade a horse farm for a boat?)

Miami
Atlanta Ga
High Country Stables - The Place to Horse Around!
Miami Phillips - Helping Small Business Owners

[schoonerdog]

As to air circulation, our boat has over 20 opening hatches, maybe 3 times that of a mono? We also have dolphin hatches (escape hatches) in the forward portion of the boat which can be kept open regardless of weather which are huge and at hook with the bimini up have wide opening sliding doors for access to the saloon. Air circulation, absolutely no problem. We've been sailing in Cuban waters in May and have never even needed a wind scoop. But, put it in a marina, where you don't get good air flow and you'll definitely want A/C. Odd, but most of the people that we know who have never made it offshore it was because they didn't really trust their boat engine to be reliable should they need to motor into a port in bad conditions. With a multi having two engines, problem solved. I could do a mono easily, I like the motion, I don't mind healing, I like the larger load capacity, I like steel hulls, but I would never, ever give up dual engines and large positive floatation compartments fore and aft behind crash bulkheads.

[wstu]

I noticed that Chris White designs were not talked about much. Why is that? He seems to be an authority on cats

[worldkiss]

I certainly have no input on the present discussion as i'm not a sailor, nor do I own a sail boat. I am a wannabe living in the Caribbean.
However, I do have redeeming qualities. I'm retired and have the desire. All else should fall in place as time progresses. I am reading the forums and several blog sites so someone please post more.
No doubt about it, I want a cat. From the few i've looked at, upper 30 foot range minimum.

[ronflonflon]

Originally Posted by wstu

I noticed that Chris White designs were not talked about much. Why is that? He seems to be an authority on cats

Because Chris White is a designer/technician and not a commercial vendor and/or marketing man.

I have visit him and his wife for a day on their Atlantic 55, impressive man with a lot of knowledge. Ended up ordering one of his Atlantic 57 cats.

[GordMay]

Chris White is the author of "The Cruising Multihull" and a noted designer. There's a great deal of White material on the web, including:

An interview with Multihull designer, Chris White:
Neil Pryde Sails: Issue 17, Chris White Interview

Review of Four Leading Catamaran Designers ~ by Garett and Carllie Hennigan
”Chris White's book, The Cruising Multihull, got me going on multihulls about 10 years ago ...”
Review of Catamaran Designers

ABOUT CHRIS WHITE DESIGNS: Chris White Designs

[koolhistorian]

Sorry to cut in 10 days after the last post, but there are my 2cents.
1. Seaworthyness. If you plan to do a circumnavigation - not carribean island hopping, from my point of view that's the first thing to take into account.
2. Low windage.
3. Good steering station - which goes with the nr 2 and nr 1 - saw the "semi flybridge" on the new cats, and im appauled - my def of a good steering station is as low as possible, good visibility and a protected area.
4. Some creature comforts - decent bunk and galley, heads and shower, but thats a personal perception thing.
5. An "away place" - if you are doing a circum nav you'll do long passages, which means that, at least at a certain moment you'll need some privacy - you and your crew.
6. Ease of handle of the sails by the least powerfull member of the crew - dog excluded.
7. Optimal (i.e. minimal) electric and electronic systems.
In my humble analysis, the vast majority of production cats are not fitting in - they are "charter barges" to quote Cris White. High windage, lots of systems, neutered rigg, built around the living room, etc. If I would be on a generous budget - I'd go for a Cris White Atlantic or a John Shuttleworth open bridgedeck 40 to 50 design, on a minimal buget a modified layout of a new Wharram - Tiki 46 or Islander 55 - built by a professional. These are sailing cats, no party cats, of course the admiral would like to have a large bridge deck cabin to entertain, but on the other hand open patios at the tropics (if you do not want to sail the Poles) is the same thing. If you want to go on the arctic or antarctic sailing, personally i'd suggest a metal mono - Nordia or what ever, not a multi.

[Xylophil]

Originally Posted by colemj

I have sailed several catamarans that slapped to the point of driving me crazy. I don't want to list specific models here, but I can give you my observations of bridgedeck design features they possessed:
1. flat surfaces
2. protruding bits that were recessed (processed?) out to allow for interior steps, passages or furniture.
3. vertical surfaces on the underside
4. bridgedeck carried too far forward
5. hard chine carried aft just above waterline (this produces a low-grade gentle slapping all night that starts out unnoticable and ends up like a Chinese water torture by 4am.

Some of these features were on boats that had high bridgedeck clearance, so absolute clearance height isn't the whole story.

Mark

Happy new year 2008, Mark,

Could you give me further infos, privately?
sinclair_dubier@yahoo.com
Thanks.
Sinclair

[BigCat]

Most people probably think I'm crazy, when it comes to rigs. Bear in mind, though, that I have owned and sailed an Ericson 35 (sailed 6000 nm,) and for weekend / vacation use: a Catalina 21, a Catalina 27, and a Catalina 42. I also owned a boat with a junk rig, which I sailed from Seattle to Hong Kong via the scenic route-the Marquesas, Tahiti, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand, Kiribati, Tuvalu, the Mariannas, the Carolines, Palau, New Guinea, the Philippines, etc. I'll take the junk rig over the marconi any time, if I can put a lot of sail area on the boat. Lots of sail area is easy to live with on a junk-rigged boat, as it is very easy to reef.

You can see my ideal catamaran at dunnanddunnrealtors.com/Catamaran.html
(Capitalization doesn't matter with html, except on my server, which insists that web pages be given capital letters if so named by the web designer.)

( I have inadvertently ended up with two identities on this board - I am also OldYachtie. )

BTW, I have started a yahoo group for those interested in vacuum infusion of resin, which is very popular in making multihulls these days. See ResinInfuse : Resin Infused Composites

[Stella Polaris]

Originally Posted by philip van praag

nobody seems interested in the sail plan. dont understand the lack of comment in this aspect as its the main sorce of drive for 30,000 miles it must have some bearing in the type of boat you choose as it also has a big affect on the layout inside.

I far prefer a fractional rig. Many want masthead rigs, because they feel they are safer. From a sailing point of view I like the higher performance you can get out of a fractional rig.
The rig doesn't change the layout inside the boat, though maybe to a small degree when you look at the Broadblue range, where they offer to mount the mast further aft than others do. I do however think that Broadblue's solution is less than ideal from a performance point of view.

[Stella Polaris]

Originally Posted by BigCat

You can see my ideal catamaran at dunnanddunnrealtors.com/Catamaran.html

Interesting design, but definitely not one for me. I need something that's tried and tested and though you can argue that the ideas behind yours is, the specific set-up you want is not.

[BigCat]

"Interesting design, but definitely not one for me. I need something that's tried and tested and though you can argue that the ideas behind yours is, the specific set-up you want is not." It may not be for you, but why would you assert that it hasn't been tried or tested? If you followed the links at the bottom of my web page you would know better. The links on my page are organized by subject, and two are to be found under the heading, "Junk Tandem Catamaran links." See: Junk rigged catamaran - The WoodenBoat Forum Dragon Wings