Catamarans in Heavy Weather

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

Hello Lrfiori

I have only done sailing along coasts as you seem to want to do. For the some parts cats can be sailed differently from most monos when coasting.

We often tie to a tree or dry out in bad weather or in dubious anchorages. Shoal draft and high speed potential allows cats and tris to more easily cross river bars and find shelter in river heads and across barred entrances. Of course you must be sensible but I have sat out some nasty weather changes in shallow creeks. I have to take the bottom and tie to a tree so that I don't sit on the anchor but it can be very snug in a creek when your compatriots are weary eyed after a night shifting anchorages. Still you will have to plan your entry and escape (don't forget the mozzie nets too).

The ability to do up to 15 knots in perfect control is useful. Whereas many boats don't like surfing, it can be a reasonable technique to surf fast across river bars. I like a boat that is designed to do these speeds in control. I like to keep all the sail up I can when crossing bars to keep speed up. The last thing I want is to be slow when a wave rears up behind. Staying in front of the crest suits my boat and is safer than going slower most of the time.

I think that motoring potential is not important in offshore sailing. I do like having a staysail on an inner forestay. Otherwise you will find that the boat develops lee helm as you reef.

Also you will have to develop techniques that differ. Unlike a previous poster I shy away from beam reaches offshore in heavy winds. The sea and swell hit the slab sides of our cat (and she is rather low freeboard). We can get waves exploding off our lee bow. So we change course - a little above a reach and then a little below which reduces motion and loads dramatically. Listen to the boat and alter your course to reduce load and motion.

You should read some books like Chris White's "The cruising multihull" which go into parachutes and drogues. In our coastal sailing we have not needed a drogue but we carry and practice with it.

Like others I would look for cats with higher bridgedeck clearance. My cat has 860mm with a section down to 660. It doesn't slap much but can in big winds - 30-35 knots. Strangely enough, we get some slapping when going faster than the sea and when we ride over a crest.

Be very careful about opinions on the net about designs. For example the designer of my cat - Robin Chamberlin - has done a huge amount of miles. He sailed his own 38ft racing cat to Antarctica and went through huge winds on many voyages on some of the nastiest seas. Yet some would condemn all his designs because of some examples capsizing. My 11.6m Chamberlin cat has a squat 14m rig and yet goes windspeed with its reacher up (till 12 knots) and has never come close to lifting a hull in 17 years. Just as all cars can rollover, all cats can potentially capsize and most of the time it will be the drivers fault. Think car, not mono. Look at the rig height, displacement, beam and bridgedeck clearance to help denote a cruiser. Personally I like a lighter boat with a shorter mast, with a huge reacher for light winds only.

A monohull is less forgiving to navigational errors around sandbars and beaches. A cat may let you off easier with a push from the bow or winch to a kedge. A cat will be less forgiving if you leave too way much sail up in a big wind. It is a mistake to not understand the advantages and limitations of either type.

cheers

Phil

Great stuff phil. I'm listening and still have lot's to learn before I fully understand the advantages and limitations of my own boat's design. Have definitely experienced and learned from some of the conditions you describe above

Keep posting,

G2L

G2L

[Pete7]

There are a series of you tube videos, a website, a book and the author is a member of CF following a RTW trip on a catamaran.

He discusses managing the boat and the energy that is applied to a yacht in a storm or heavy weather. Some good articles worth reading.

Welcome to Maxing Out

Pete

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

There's some great info in the above post. And would that I had time to pen something quite as insightful, & full of great tips. But... later perhaps. Until then below are links to some great self education resources on the subject(s). Including boat design, outfitting, handling/seamanship, et all. From some experts on these things who've been on the leading edge of yachting for decades.
Shuttleworth Design - Articles
SetSail FPB » Free Books
Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather – Over 130 Documented Case Histories

There are several chapters on relavent stuff in each of the (free) Dashew books. Shuttleworth goes into the science of what does & doesn't make a multihull perform when the chips are down. And the DDB lets you read lots, & lots of case stories on what worked & what didn't for folks; on all different boat types, as well as experience levels, & equipment.

BTW, 20-40yrs ago, the multihull designers of the time came to the general concensus that an offshore multihull should at a minimum be around 40' long, with 100,000ft/lb of righting moment. And the latter's pretty easy to calculate, though obviously it's not a hard & fast rule. But having a boat well sorted out in terms of handholds, easy sail handling, drogue deployment, etc. is. Even when some of these qualities take away from the weekend condo feel or look. Or not, the choice (& life) is yours.
Ask these guys https://www.plisson.com/media/catalo...8.03.144_1.JPG

Oh, & weatherly foils rock. As quite a lot of minikeels either stall a lot, or allow a lot of leeway when the wind & seas are up. Even it it's not a storm. So check a boat's real VMG vs. it's ideal VMG in flat waters.

PS: Also think on where your inside steering station might be. Even if but a seat with good visibility, & an autopilot remote. Boat's get designed around such features for a reason. Look at any craft that earns it's keep as a work boat!

Thanks for posting the links as the OP an any less experienced sailors like myself who may be reading this will surely benefit.

Best.

G2L

[Tom and Maje]

We've been living aboard our 2004 Leopard 40 for 2.5 years now and have sailed her from the States down the the Caribbean three times. The last two times have been from Hampton, VA to the BVI. We're now getting ready to do an Atlantic crossing. Make sure you're leaving at the right time of year. For example, don't to a transatlantic crossing before the middle of May. Do your research.

What I can tell you is avoid heavy weather. Unless you're racing, there is no reason to go when you're going to get caught in bad weather. Yes, we've been in squalls up to 45-50 knots. That is really unavoidable when making a passage over 3-5 days. The trick is to reef deep or drop your sails and motor.

A good weather router will help you avoid the really bad stuff. We buy weather from Chris Parker and have been very happy with his advice and recommendations.

That said, we still have a life raft, and an evacuation plan. We know that even if part of one hull was ripped apart, the boat would still float, and we don't take stupid risks.

Maje

[Cavalier MK2]

A Flicka is a pretty small heavy boat. I think you will find a cat 35" and up to be more comfortable by a large margin. It will also sail in rough water with less effort on crew and vessel. The key to safety on ,multihulls is matching sail area and speed to condition giving yourself a wide safety margin. This might take practice as it won't feel like the boat needs it compared to what you are used to.We sail a tri but the same basics apply. In a blow we sail conservatively and find it easy to manage. For sure a level platform with room to move makes handling the sails easier as well as having a better motion. Downwind is much better without the rolling of a mono. We put thousands of miles on a 24 foot mono so have an idea of the comparison.

Load like a airplane and think of modern energy approaches to keep systems weight down. A heavy full keel cruiser can have a bank of golf cart batteries which is the opposite of what you need. To carry things like this cat sizes have to be pretty big which drives up costs.

For bang for the buck I'd look at cruising tris like a Cross as well. They can have decent room in larger sizes and often sail better than high windage cats. Boat costs can be pretty outragous but if you spend less you can sail longer and if disaster ever strikes it won't bankrupt you. Look for cats that are better sailors as you'll have more fun and use less fuel. After a Flica you'll think you are sailing a dock as all the sensations will be more subtle. I use heeling as a redline, for a cat less is more stable. Cruising 5 degrees is pretty sensiblle for a cat, 10 degrees for a tri. Our max stability is at about 20+ degrees but we never get close to it.

Finally, listen to Catsketcher always, he is a sensible bloke who found himself in 2 hulls instead of 3 and has been scientifically working to be happy about it ever since.

[lightsloop]

As a long time monohull sailor that now owns a 40 foot cat, I find the challenge to be learning when the cat is over or under powered (too much or too little sail) as the wind and seas rise. Mainly because I don't have the feedback of heel angle and weather helm. On my monohull, the strategy in general is to set sail area for the lulls and depower in the gusts, and on the cat it is the opposite. Going up wind one would pinch the monohull, the cat would perform better footing off and maintaining boat speed. Off the wind, if sail area is set on a cat for the low apparent speed while surfing, the boat is instantly over powered if she slows suddenly by stuffing the bows in a wave. Hence the strategy of setting sails for the gusts and living with slightly less speed in the lulls. Finally, the ride is different, with deck bridge pounding and waves slapping the hulls on the cat vs. sudden heel angle changes on the monohull. These are the differences I've observed. Hope it helps

[MIRELOS]

Crossed the Atlantic the wrong way; north latitudes E to W, uphill all the way.
All kinds of weather, never felt uncomfortable about the boat's stability, always reefed on time, keep a correct angle, judge the weather. Usually is not the boats fault but poor seamanship. I've been in heavy weather with my last two monohulls; a Lord Nelson 35 and a Catalina 27, all the boats have different characteristics and this plays into the way to handle the boat in any type of weather. I'm willing to go comfortably and safely anywhere with my catamaran.

[KJThomas]

Originally Posted by downunder

I think for such sailing boat length will help.

There was a american owned 50ft M&M design that was built in NZ that cruised Aus and was based in Tasmania for a while. Adiago or some name like that.

Here https://adagiojournal.wordpress.com/

They did at least one voyage from Tasmania to NZ and from NZ to Patagonia from memory with no issues. Others have done similar voyages.

50ft would be better than 40ft in larger seas and perhaps the charter builders would not be best in these situations.

The difference between 30ft and 50ft in a storm is purely academic. Both are tiny. The 30ft however, is easier for a short handed crew to manage.

[jduve]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Please define heavy weather.....wind speed, wave height/period, and duration.

At 30-35kts wind gusting 40, triple reef both head and main, beam reach, fantastic ride. Could do this for days.

Once caught in 55kts, dropped sails and motored into it for the 4 hour duration.

When and where makes a lot of difference.

I agree with DotDun. We have put sea with a forecast of over 30kts in an FP Lavezzi. The boat handled it easily when reefed appropriately and we made a fast passage. The second night we completely dropped the main and just had a reefed headsail.

[KJThomas]

Originally Posted by onavegador

As Seaslung Caravan has written rumour goes that Prouts have a good capsize record.

But to the otherside they give you not much pleasure in sailing them because ponding, ponding ...again and again is normal. I now several people who bought and sail now prouts because they gave the capsize record to much weight. And now they sail as less as they can and are allways looking for a weather window with flat seas and possibly no wind (As they prefere to use the engine). To leave an anchorage for a passage is allways a decision not easy to take.


I had an other catamaran and with her was sailing a joy even she performed not so good as a Chris White may do, but she performed also very well when having strong weather eg. in the Falkland Islands, near Cape Hoorn, the Indian Ocean to SA or sailing up the Red Sea, to name a few.

Nethertheless it is good to have in mind that weak winds are the most present weather when sailing a circumnavigation on the barefoot track and even when sailing higher latitudes in the right time of the year.

Choose your cat well and enjoyy happy sailing with her.

James

Prouts don't capsize because they don't sail. If you want an ocean capable motor bat they are fine.

[ALAIN97133]

Originally Posted by Lrfiori

I read ya'll quite a lot, but I keep to the sidelines because I defer to your collective experience over my rather short (6 years around home) sailing life. My captain and I have a Pacific Seacraft Flicka but we have dreams of a cat and some long trips along the pacific coast and who knows where else when we retire in about 7 years. So I've been reading a lot about cats and I keep seeing posts that mention how differently they behave in heavy weather. Can we please talk about how they behave and how to best sail a cat in weather? And what are the characteristics that make one cat better at heavy weather sailing than others? (I thought this might be more interesting than another post about cats vs. monos. )

Hi ! I much prefer centerboard sailboats, be it monohulls or cats for what I fear is to trip over my keel in big or really big seas With centerboards, you can raise it or them & hopefully slide down the big one instead of triping & being rolled over. The good side of cats is that they are more stable upside down than right side up Also I much prefer low windage older Cats for every year brings to St Martin FWI higher & uglier multihulls

[knockabout]

warram cats seem to be handling bad weather consistently though not favoured by the cashed up and clueless due to lack of shore based luxury fittings / there would be little stopping a fastidious warram cat owner using a supposed modern luxury fit out plan. good example the small warram that crossed the tasman recently with a missing child navigator.

[akprb]

Here's our two cents: sailingohana

[Cavalier MK2]

Originally Posted by akprb

Here's our two cents: sailingohana

For light air work s tri can have an edge. We do well in winds less than 5 and can ghost in a slop but it depends on the boat.

Richard Woods cats are good to check out for performance. The earlier French cats seemed more performance oriented as well as avoiding below the waterline sandwich skin hulls. Daggers help with the windward work as does lower windage. There is something for everyone out there with the compromises covered in different proportions. Make a list to see how the considerations stack up against your boxes.

[buzzstar]

Hey posters, seems like a legit question, why so few responses, particularly from the catamaran people?

Lrfiori- the lack of numerous responses could be that we recently have had a big go around on this site between cat' people and mono people, and there is the possibility that there is a reluctance to possibly start again. I hope not, because there are active participants who are quite knowledgeable about catamarans and should have some useful comments. Good luck.