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KJThomas · 08-08-2016, 23:19

Southern Wombat.
We have been trying to tell you politely that you are talking a load of b. But now i have had enough.

Quote (Stick to verifiable facts. There's a lot of opinions but facts speak for themselves. And the one thing that's quite clear is that there is very little experience with real offshore fully developed heavy weather at storm force. That's 50 knots and over gusting up to 40 % more. Look up your Beaufort chart for force 10 and tell me that's the conditions you found so serene.)

I have been in over 50 knots many times. I have several videos. The sea always looks much flatter on film than reality. Even when we have had cargo smashed and shifting and the ship doing 35' rolls. It is obvious to me you have NFI.

(I still see no one prepared to admit that current production models of cats have an abysmal survival rate if they are inverted in heavy weather away from reasonably prompt rescue services. That's a disturbing fact that people don't want to know, and that probably the same type of people (who are invariably very experienced cat skippers) end up dying more commonly that newcomers when it does go to custard.)

No one is prepared to admit it because you are spouting ********.
I can't even find the six occasions you quote amongst 30 years of worldwide maritime accident reports.

I do know of four larger multihulls capsizing offshore in the South pacific over thirty years, with one fatality. (Out of hundreds who did the voyage every year)I know rather a lot about that one because a friend of mine rescued them. It was an older type trimaran. Both crew survived the capsize. However it was too rough for the lifeboat to approach close enough for the second to be rescued. The first guy was able to swim to the boat.

In the same time span there have been more than a few monohulls lost without trace, apart from maybe an empty liferaft. They may have rolled and sunk. But we will never know.

Mr B · 09-08-2016, 00:30

There is a video on Youtube, Lagoon 440 sailing Force 8 Winds, Approx 40 MPH,
At Force nine, The ocean looked near flat and just above a Millpond,
These video's just dont show the Ocean as it really is, Hahahaha

SVNeko · 09-08-2016, 01:37

Can we all just agree that sailors often believe the winds they experience are greater than reality AND that videos fail to show the true severity of winds and seas? And then stop slagging each other off?

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UpOnStands · 09-08-2016, 01:56

for the OP, suggest you concentrate on the stuff that can happen any day of the week
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...re-160096.html
"Shortly afterwards the saloon was filling with water, the auto bilge pump did not function, the manual bilge pump did not function and manual bailing was started. Initially a Pan-Pan was issued this was then upgraded to full Mayday. The CG arrived by helicopter but were unable to help so the crew were taken off onto another yacht in the fleet. A short time later the Oceanis sank."

donradcliffe · 09-08-2016, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJThomas

I do know of four larger multihulls capsizing offshore in the South pacific over thirty years, with one fatality. (Out of hundreds who did the voyage every year)I know rather a lot about that one because a friend of mine rescued them. It was an older type trimaran. Both crew survived the capsize. However it was too rough for the lifeboat to approach close enough for the second to be rescued. The first guy was able to swim to the boat.

In the same time span there have been more than a few monohulls lost without trace, apart from maybe an empty liferaft. They may have rolled and sunk. But we will never know.

Let's not exaggerate and lose our limited credibility. This year there are 204 boats on the Pacific Puddle Jump, of which 31 are multihulls. The Puddle Jumpers are nearly all the boats that cross, because they get a deal on the French Polynesian bond. The percentage of multihulls is increasing with time (in 2009 there were 226 Puddle Jumpers and 17 multihulls). I don't have any statistics, but when I crossed in 1992 and 1997, I would have said that less than 1% were multis. My best guess is that over the last 30 years there were an average of 15 monos out there for every multi--that kind of skews your statistics on losses.

KJThomas · 09-08-2016, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Let's not exaggerate and lose our limited credibility. This year there are 204 boats on the Pacific Puddle Jump, of which 31 are multihulls. The Puddle Jumpers are nearly all the boats that cross, because they get a deal on the French Polynesian bond. The percentage of multihulls is increasing with time (in 2009 there were 226 Puddle Jumpers and 17 multihulls). I don't have any statistics, but when I crossed in 1992 and 1997, I would have said that less than 1% were multis. My best guess is that over the last 30 years there were an average of 15 monos out there for every multi--that kind of skews your statistics on losses.

Just lost yours. I was boatbuilding in Whangarei for 15 years until 2009. We never had less than 20 multihull cruisers on the hard each summer. Increasing constantly up until now. Then of course Opua, Auckland and all those on the coast. Then there is all the rest of the South Pacific. Including the cats domiciled in French Polynesia, New Zealand and Australia.
This year we had about 1/3 cats to monohulls. 7 crossed the Tasman from Oz.

El Pinguino · 09-08-2016, 02:30

'In the same time span there have been more than a few(thats precise) monohulls lost without trace(so posted missing, could have been run down, propane explosion, crew popped their clogs while they slept......), apart from maybe an empty liferaft. They may(then again maybe they didn't) have rolled and sunk. But we will never know.'

Not a lot of credibility in this post.

Name names or it never ever happened....

Dulcesuenos · 09-08-2016, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

'In the same time span there have been more than a few(thats precise) monohulls lost without trace(so posted missing, could have been run down, propane explosion, crew popped their clogs while they slept......), apart from maybe an empty liferaft. They may(then again maybe they didn't) have rolled and sunk. But we will never know.'

Not a lot of credibility in this post.

Name names or it never ever happened....

I know 4 that have have lost keels and flipped in just the past couple years, 3 with complete loss of life, all of which discussed heavily here, there have been another 3 lost w no trace that were also discussed on cf in the last year. Not sure how many multis in the last couple of years went missing entirely.
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El Pinguino · 09-08-2016, 02:47

Losing your keel is a different matter entirely to what is under discussion here which is, I think, how do cats handle 50 knots and 35 foot seas.

35 foot is a big sea.... haven't seen any vids 'on thread' yet showing anything like it....

KJThomas · 09-08-2016, 02:51

In our local area just off the top of my head.
Smackwater Jack
Quartermaster
Nina
Disappeared.

44'cruisingcat · 09-08-2016, 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVNeko

Can we all just agree that sailors often believe the winds they experience are greater than reality AND that videos fail to show the true severity of winds and seas? And then stop slagging each other off?

Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

That would be nice, but it wouldn't be cruisers forum...

KJThomas · 09-08-2016, 03:27

A bit more than 50 knots.
No sign of 35 Ft waves despite 2000 miles of fetch and blowing for two days.
I would be happy sailing in any of the cats I have been on in this.

As you can see this monohull is not very comfortable.

Factor · 09-08-2016, 03:34

I have been in 50 plus on a number of cats, for some time, somehow I survived to tell the tale. The outrageous ill-informed bigotry displayed by some helps none.

El Pinguino · 09-08-2016, 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJThomas

In our local area just off the top of my head.
Smackwater Jack
Quartermaster
Nina
Disappeared.

Come on KJ, you can do better than that...

Smackwater Jack ? .... RB Sailing: Smackwater Jack (Whiting One Tonner)
cruising boat not.

Niña ? .... old and knackered, late in season , we know exactly what happened to her ... samesame HMS(sic) Bounty

Quartermaster ? This is interesting at quite a few levels..The 1994 Queen's birthday storm | Pangolin
Not least it shows what a verifiable 50 knots gusting 70 with associated sea state looks like ( the sea looks a lot worse when it has been blowing a steady 50 for the last week.....)
Quartermaster herself? Not my choice of a cruising yacht.... however.. did she roll? Was she simply overwhelmed? Did they abandon her while she was still afloat.... ? who knows.......