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Old 09-11-2022, 11:18   #151
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
From the same guy who just said

"Completely WRONG. A performance cat with boards has significant advantages over its keeled condo siblings when crossing an ocean.

Firstly it will be less exposed to heavy weather with faster passages and even the chance of outrunning storms in certain conditions."

So why were you still out there?

BTW, I was talking about waves with 4 meters of white water heading toward your fragile glass stern at 30 knots, not total wave height of 8M.

Do you think Richard Woods ABANDONED his cat because he was having too much fun?

Firstly it will be less exposed to heavy weather with faster passages and even the CHANCE of outrunning storms in CERTAIN conditions."


NOT Always


As I said I would not have wanted to be on a mono in any serious conditions. I owned a mono once and would have been below praying not sailing.

With the exception of one incident we were sailing doing normal watches and cooking it just happens sometimes normally towards the end of long open ocean passages. Surfing at 25 knots plus under autopilot and quadruple reefed main in close to 60 knots of wind can be quite exhilarating once you build confidence in your CAT, the noise however is quite frightening. We were still under complete control having reduced the apparent wind we were not sailing near the edge. Half a dozen monos caught in the same storm arrived over the next few days with broken masts two, one after being rolled and one with a broken boom, they were a complete mess with shredded sails and very bedraggled crews on board.

The exception being after spending nearly 24 hours on the stern with an emergency tiller, because I foolishly employed a professional to put new seals in my steering rams, winds were in the high 40's and building when we decided to lay a hull. With the wind at 50 knots and compromised steering there was really no choice. My wife sent me to bed after having a HOT shower, a HOT SHOWER, where I slept while she kept watch. The waves would break over the boat pushing the bows away and the boat would head off down the wave where it would round up beam on and wait for the next wave. All while I slept WITHOUT THE NEED FOR LEE CLOTHS. One wave was sufficient to over come the seal on a port light in the tumble home and sprayed the berth. This was north of NZ and we would have easily outrun the front if an idiot had not crushed a ram fitting new seals. We sailed on to Fiji none the worse for experience with no damage to my fragile plastic performance cat.

Knowing Richard Woods he would have probably stayed on board but he had a much less experienced partner on board that would have influenced his choices. His tiny little cat didn't capsize.
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Old 09-11-2022, 11:34   #152
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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Originally Posted by catsketcher View Post
.

Then there is the "can't carry weight" argument. Again, this is just simply false, unless you want scuba compressors and the like. We could carry provisions for 2.5 months with lots of toys. I did watch the weight but it was never a grind, just an appreciation that I might not need 2 of every power tool that built the boat - just one of each type.

"
We have had a fast cruising cat before that regularly sailed in the teens and won rum and good enough to sail to other lands but at 10m she took a performance hit when loaded and was a compromise in comfort and niceties that, as we aged and got better off financially, didn't need to "endure" in our next boat.

We were well into the build on our next one but as the build progressed the list of niceties and needs grew, some hers, many mine.
big refrigeration and freezer space, 12v iceer was never going to work
unlimited ice
A chef's galley
The battery power and solar to run it
A king size bed with a real mattress that we didn't have to climb into or have a low roof over,
A proper tender capable of big miles, big load and all day fishing trips away from the boat
The storage space for cases and cases of weighty adult beverages in bottles - a year's supply of a brand the financier actually liked
The storage space for anything we needed to be self sufficient for months away from land support - no more spending days trying to source stuff in remote locations and lands.
And, and, and

It became increasingly obvious that what we were building would not meet the above expectations and it seemed there were to be no compromises if having a happy financier onboard cruising full time.
And, from that list that it was going to be a long stretch getting any cat that could successfully tick those boxes, have any sort of style and actually sail well that left any change in the bank account to enjoy it.

But our current vessel ticked those boxes easily and for a small fraction of the price and the financier has been happy out here for six years with no interest of going back to land.
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Old 09-11-2022, 15:10   #153
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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This has to be the most ridiculous uninformed twaddle I have read in a long time. We take a bunch of unrelated boats, sizes shapes, experience and based on hearsay come to a conclusion that cats are only good for ideal conditions and are floating living rooms.


Do you own a cat (suspect not!) have you sailed on one in heavy weather (suspect not!) have you sailed on one at all? (which one?)
I dont care what boat you have, leaving port and sailing out into a 30+kn headwind for a few days is pure stupidity. 90% of cruisers will almost never be sailing in those conditions, certainly not intentionally.
I grew up and worked for 25 years sailing monohulls pretty much exclusively. My dream boat was always a 50-60í monohull with classic lines. This boat is still a possibility at some point but for cruising with family and friends in the warmer latitudes you just cannot beat a well performing cat for comfort and speed getting from A to B and living aboard. All but the proven condomarans are fun to sail, although a little different than a monohull.

If you are going to be sailing/cruising in latitudes that present big seas and wind on the nose often, then sure, look at a beefy monohull first up.
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Old 09-11-2022, 16:01   #154
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

You seem to be all about the heeling. If so, go cat. For those of us that like to feel all the forces exerted on our boat, and like all points of sail, heeling is great. We have a Freedom 36 shoal draft (4.5í) and our interior space (no mast in the salon, and a fold out of the way table) is wide open. We seriously love to dance and use it as our dance hall. Third year of cruising most everywhere and in challenging conditions and have a total of $50k in her. We can usually sail at 7 knots which is plenty of speed for us. Only cat Iíve appreciated was a beach Hobie cat.
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Old 10-11-2022, 06:58   #155
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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You're asking a highly debated question, nearly as common as the argument between 9 mm and 45 ACP!

Why don't you charter a couple boats, and see what works for you? It's very expensive, but less so than purchasing a boat you don't like?

My personal experience: is that monohulls are great , and so our catamarans!

I'm on my second trimaran, so I have the best of both worlds. It still sails fairly flat, like a catamaran. That keeps my wife happy!

It really moves, and can go upwind better than many monohulls for the same size boat. It can carry a lot taller mast, and much more sail.

Before anyone jumps me about all the dangers of multihulls-just remember: The time to tie a reef in, is the very first time you think about it?



obviously a .45, duh... unless you were a girl. (in which case a 9mm will do)

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Old 10-11-2022, 07:11   #156
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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it was explained to me once (by a chap who has done 4 america's cups) that the ideal cat needs to be able to plane sideways

ie when hit by a big wave the boat is shoved away without resisting / tripping over. this i think is the essence of the difference...mono's fight the ocean...cats just bob around waiting for conditions to improve

cheers,
If you are day sailing/racing ready to instantly react, the downwind board should be down as it will be deeper and have a better grip on the water.

If you are in tough conditions, the upwind board should be down. You don't lose much performance but if you accidentally fly a hull, the boat suddenly loses it's grip and slides sideways dissipating the overturning forces.

Of course, this doesn't really apply to boats with fixed minikeels but those tend to be heavy lightly canvased boats that would be near impossible to flip even with an idiot at the helm.

In really bad conditions, just pull the sails and raise both boards. It might not be comfortable but you took away pretty much everything the ocean could grab to flip the boat. I've heard several stories of cats being abandoned in a bad storm only to be found weeks or months later perfectly find bobbing around.
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Old 10-11-2022, 07:12   #157
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

No one has mentioned visibility. On my boat, it doesn't take much heel for the jib to completely block my view of the leeward half of what's in front of me. most (or maybe just many) cats have to look over the cabin and maybe can't see under the jib? Some cats have a central/forward helm (Maine Cat 41) that looks excellent for this.


When motoring with the main stowed,I have a massive blind spot directly in front. I suppose it's not that big, but I sure don't like not seeing both channel markers at the same time.
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Old 10-11-2022, 07:20   #158
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

i think all sailing boats have this problem to a greater or lesser degree...it's not a cat / mono thing

while vission fm cats doesn't get block due to heel, compared to a mono we do have a lot further distance to walk across to look down the other side. if things are crowded / excessively busy i'll try to post another pair of eyes on the other side to the helm.

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Old 10-11-2022, 08:18   #159
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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Originally Posted by Alistair242 View Post
... a little different than a monohull.
...
I'll say.
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Old 10-11-2022, 11:58   #160
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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I'll say.
The motion is different, much better with less roll in conditions with light air and a beam/following sea(most of the time on the milk run). Not to mention they are faster in these same conditions.
Then you have anchorages with any swell creeping in. The motion differential here is considerable and the difference between a good nights rest and otherwise, or in certain anchorages even being a realistic option or not.

Donít get me wrong. I love sailing monohulls but many of them will also pound to windward in short sharp seas. Many performance cats will not. It really depends on the hull(s) shape.
For the purposes of long term cruising with others in the warmer climes I choose a cat every time. Each to their own of course.
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Old 11-11-2022, 04:35   #161
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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Originally Posted by Alistair242 View Post
The motion is different, much better with less roll in conditions with light air and a beam/following sea(most of the time on the milk run). Not to mention they are faster in these same conditions.

Then you have anchorages with any swell creeping in. The motion differential here is considerable and the difference between a good nights rest and otherwise, or in certain anchorages even being a realistic option or not.



Donít get me wrong. I love sailing monohulls but many of them will also pound to windward in short sharp seas. Many performance cats will not. It really depends on the hull(s) shape.

For the purposes of long term cruising with others in the warmer climes I choose a cat every time. Each to their own of course.


Iíd debate whether the average cruising cat is actually faster than a similarly priced/sized mono (ie 40-45 cat compared to 50-55 foot mono) particularly in light air.

I have sailed right by 40 foot cruising cats even with my 40 foot mono in light air
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Old 11-11-2022, 05:38   #162
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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...Completely RIGHT monohulls are cheap to buy. A cat is more expensive a good performance cat is very expensive.
so if we compare them on a $$$-basis (the only sensible one, unless your pockets are bottomless)
(& Tupaia, if you are honest, your cat plays in a totally different category of "bluewater" boat. In every aspect: looks, performance,... - & $$$$!)
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Old 11-11-2022, 05:44   #163
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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Originally Posted by Alistair242 View Post
The motion is different, much better with less roll in conditions with light air and a beam/following sea(most of the time on the milk run). Not to mention they are faster in these same conditions.
Then you have anchorages with any swell creeping in. The motion differential here is considerable and the difference between a good nights rest and otherwise, or in certain anchorages even being a realistic option or not.

Donít get me wrong. I love sailing monohulls but many of them will also pound to windward in short sharp seas. Many performance cats will not. It really depends on the hull(s) shape.
For the purposes of long term cruising with others in the warmer climes I choose a cat every time. Each to their own of course.
We can agree that the motion is different. Which is better is not as clear cut.

I started out sailing in monohulls and the feeling of a good performing monohull is what I crave. The motion of the boat in the waves, the pressure of the wind on the sails which heels us over, the feel of the helm... Those are the are the sensory inputs which give me life aboard a boat. I just don't get that feeling on a multihull.

That does not make multihulls bad. I've felt for years that if I was starting out sailing now I would look towards a fast multi hull, just as I looked toward fast monohulls 46 years ago. But now I have no interest in changing and besides my preference for the feeling of pure sailing I get from a monohull, there are other considerations, a major one being cost. Multihull boats seem to cost more, they occupy more space at a marina and that will surely be reflected in the berthing price, there are two motors to maintain, etc.

And it does not bother me that I have to be careful where I put my coffee cup when I come on deck for a dawn watch.
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Old 11-11-2022, 10:04   #164
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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Originally Posted by Alistair242 View Post
I love sailing monohulls but many of them will also pound to windward in short sharp seas. Many performance cats will not. It really depends on the hull(s) shape.
Are you SURE you have sailed a catamaran to weather? The most common description is hobby horsing punctuated by incredible bridge deck slamming.
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Old 11-11-2022, 10:14   #165
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Re: Catamaran vs Monohull... advantages, disadvantages?

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Are you SURE you have sailed a catamaran to weather? The most common description is hobby horsing punctuated by incredible bridge deck slamming.


That maybe the most common description but does it hold true for all?
We have a performance cat that doesnít hobbyhorse and may get the occasional slap but never a pound. High bridgedeck clearance, lightweight and minimal weight in the ends.
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