Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

[Mystic38]

sigh..

not biting, but your apples to apples simply isnt.

the logic was there to follow, I simply took as examples of AVERAGE what i would expect to be the likely current top two 40' selling cruising boats..

there is not now or ever anything average about any IP...not in sales, not in performance

Originally Posted by smj

How about apples to apples? A Lagoon 40 up against an Island Packet 40?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Mystic38

sigh..



not biting, but your apples to apples simply isnt.



the logic was there to follow, I simply took as examples of AVERAGE what i would expect to be the likely current top two 40' selling cruising boats..



there is not now or ever anything average about any IP...not in sales, not in performance

We are talking tacking angles and not the current top selling boats, correct?
I’ve always considered the Beneteau to be one of the better sailing production monohulls, and the Lagoon not. That’s why I brought up the Island Packet as a good example.
The Beneteau would be better in a comparison with your St Francis in my opinion.

[Boatguy30]

MM Leopard 40 with folding props atleast +1 knot VMG

Lagoon 400? Get the biggest props and the biggest engines.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

MM Leopard 40 with folding props atleast +1 knot VMG

Lagoon 400? Get the biggest props and the biggest engines.

... ???

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

... ???

just another clone reading and believing CF too much

[Factor]

See Outremer 4x owner - has set the boat up for cruising first and performance second and indeed is not interested in highest speed, with one version of his sail plan can do 28 apparent.

Sail Puffin interview with owner

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by Factor

...set the boat up for cruising first and performance second...

Are you sure? Doug seems like a weight, and performance freak.

He might not be interested in top speed but he does want top lightwind performance.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Are you sure? Doug seems like a weight, and performance freak.

He might not be interested in top speed but he does want top lightwind performance.

Agree - that is why is was interesting to watch the video. Particularly his discussions on cruising performance and on sail plans

[donradcliffe]

Very interesting video on the unlimited budget class of cruiser. He has given "performance with comfort" a lot of thought, but I don't agree with all his ideas. The highlight of the interview is when the off camera wife breaks her silence "What a bunch of sh**t".

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Factor

See Outremer 4x owner - has set the boat up for cruising first and performance second and indeed is not interested in highest speed, with one version of his sail plan can do 28 apparent.

Sail Puffin interview with owner

I didn’t bother watching the video but the blog posts were interesting and he goes into a lot of detail regarding his evaluations and choices. The centre of effort calculations at various reef states from North Sails are particularly illustrative. They also show the importance of having a planned sailing range that includes all conditions, for ocean cruisers at least.

Sail choice will be different for every boat due to mast location and relative sizes and positions of headsail/mainsail.

[SaltyBlonde]

I looked into this a bit when shopping for my Cat and what I kept getting told was that once you get over 40' on a Cat, going upwind is pretty much a motor endeavor. I opted for my lil 30' because it has daggerboards and the combo of the daggerboards and shorter length, seem to avoid those notorious upwind Cat problems. I've got afew kinks to work out on my lil fixer upper before I take her out, so I have yet to prove this theory, but it came up often enough with reputable folks that I felt there must be some truth to it.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by SaltyBlonde

I looked into this a bit when shopping for my Cat and what I kept getting told was that once you get over 40' on a Cat, going upwind is pretty much a motor endeavor. I opted for my lil 30' because it has daggerboards and the combo of the daggerboards and shorter length, seem to avoid those notorious upwind Cat problems. I've got afew kinks to work out on my lil fixer upper before I take her out, so I have yet to prove this theory, but it came up often enough with reputable folks that I felt there must be some truth to it.

you could be onto something here. because larger boats gets harder to build stiff enough and get quicker structural damage if trying too hard in chop. in flat water any cat goes well upwind.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by SaltyBlonde

...what I kept getting told was that once you get over 40' on a Cat, going upwind is pretty much a motor endeavor...

I think that could be from people trying to sell you a cat that can't sail upwind or from people who either have one that can't sail upwind or are too lazy to do it.

There are many excellent catamarans over 40 feet which are terrific at sailing upwind.

There are quite a few more condo-cats which are not.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

you could be onto something here. because larger boats gets harder to build stiff enough and get quicker structural damage if trying too hard in chop. in flat water any cat goes well upwind.

That’s unadulterated male cow excrement.

It is no harder to engineer and build a larger boat to be stiff than it is a smaller boat. Proof positive: the lack of reports of catamarans with structural failures. Certain production cats whose tabbed bulkheads come lose, yes, an example of cheap building, but actual widespread damage among larger boats? Nope.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I think that could be from people trying to sell you a cat that can't sail upwind or from people who either have one that can't sail upwind or are too lazy to do it.

There are many excellent catamarans over 40 feet which are terrific at sailing upwind.

There are quite a few more condo-cats which are not.

we are discussing rough seas here, not flat water. You will not do 8 kn in 20 kn of wind here unless on suicide mission. if you ever have sailed cat in rough upwind enough, you will notice that waves are telling you how fast and what angle you can go. Boat type has little to do with it. if you try too hard boat will be launched in next wave and larger forces than you want will play with your rig. In these conditions boat robustness build is the key. Sure, boat with smaller bridgedeck will do bit better.

ok, now i am ready to listen to your fairytale how performance cats posses magic in such conditions , please . Ever i watched one, never seen that magic, heheh.

please bring in CC44. sure he will add extra story or 2 with video behind island flat water upwind sail