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Old 15-12-2019, 20:02   #136
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Re: Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

Seawind 1160 has a curved track for the self tracking jib. Works wonderfully, and actually makes it fun tacking upwind in a narrow channel! Getting s little more power but having to deal with sheets release and trim in is not worth it. IMO. I deleted the tracks for such on the new build.
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:07   #137
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Re: Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

Just in case this thread is still active. Here is a clips from a rougher coastal trip with tacking in to developed 20-25 knot SW of 18 hours duration with a 1.5m NW swell. Tacking angle (from ground track is near 90 degrees).


Full video of the day
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:55   #138
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Re: Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

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Originally Posted by gsuescum View Post
My wife and I have owned a Privilege 615, a Mainecat 33 and now a Privilege 495 (our go-away boat!) and they all perform well.

Were you the original owner of the Maine Cat 33? I saw it for sale recently and it seems like it sold fast. Can you tell us about that one?

For the benefit of the rest of the crew here that MC33 was a custom stretched version of the MC30. I think it was ordered that way and the modification was done during the build by the factory.



And tell us about the tacking angles.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:26   #139
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Re: Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

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Originally Posted by gsuescum View Post
It depends soooo much on the make of catamaran. It seems like the production cats of today (I.E. Lagoon, Leopards, etc.) are heavily design-driven by the charter market. That is fine for charterers who are moving a few miles per day. I believe if you want to get some performance you have to stay away from most of the production cats OR look at their earlier models which catered a bit more to sailors.

I’ve chartered the Moorings/Leopards and a Lagoon 450; all great fun on beam reaches and comfortable.

My wife and I have owned a Privilege 615, a Mainecat 33 and now a Privilege 495 (our go-away boat!) and they all perform well. They’ve all done much better than the production cats we’ve “raced against” both upwind and with less leeway.

On those older Privileges we can easily get up 30 apparent wind and still be doing 1/3-1/2 the apparent wind speed. Here a pic from our shakedown of Hopes & Dreams, our P495. We were doing 1/2 apparent wind speed at ~40 deg (7.5kts in about 11 kts true)

Take a look at the older makes of catamarans or non-charter-centric makes and I’m sure you can find good performance. Attachment 205127
gsuescum, Looking at your instruments and reading your post it looks to me that you are doing very well! You are hitting 7.5 knots close reaching in 11.5 knots of wind. And I see that your apparent wind angle is around 40 degrees and I calculate that to be a true wind angle of about 65 degrees.

So, taking this back to the topic, what are the tacking angles of catamarans, I'd say your tacking angle is about 130 degrees and your VMG is under 4 knots knots. For going upwind, that is not particularly good. My VPP predicts that if you headed up 5-10 degrees you will get better VMG and tacking angles but you'll obviously be going quite a bit slower.

I don't know if your p495 has dagger boards, I'll bet not. I think that the modern cats with deep boards will perform better to windward. Your strength will be sparkling performance a bit off the wind.

No matter what boats we have, cracking off and going faster is very tempting and much more fun but it does not get us to a windward destination very fast.
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:41   #140
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Re: Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
gsuescum, Looking at your instruments and reading your post it looks to me that you are doing very well! You are hitting 7.5 knots close reaching in 11.5 knots of wind. And I see that your apparent wind angle is around 40 degrees and I calculate that to be a true wind angle of about 65 degrees.

So, taking this back to the topic, what are the tacking angles of catamarans, I'd say your tacking angle is about 130 degrees and your VMG is under 4 knots knots
If you do the math you mlght as well do it right. 7.5 x cos(65) ~= 3.17 knots VMG to the wind. Now, gsuescum did not say that 40AWA is the best he can do. he says he can easily get up 30AWA. And it's been explained a number of times here that if you're too fast (which in this example leads to a rather poor VMG) you can simply point higher and reduce speed in order to improve your tacking angle over ground (but not necessarily your VMG).

@gsuescum: your comparison with other brands is both unfair and unrealistic. Unfair beacause the P495 was built in the early 2000' and should be compared to a lagoon 470 or maybe a L500. I don't think you want to race those. Unrealistic because you are underestimating the newer condo cats, like many mono sailors do. These boats did not totally stop going upwind because they got fat. They are just less good at it.
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Old 09-02-2020, 20:57   #141
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Re: Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

Thought I'd share a view of going upwind in my Gemini 105mc, in powered up conditions. This is a view of my track on a nice relaxed sail up an arm of my local harbour on a sunny afternoon. Started at the left (mouth of arm), wind coming straight up from the end of the arm, took the pic after turning and heading back downwind. 15-20 apparent. Not really pinching, keeping 6.5 to 7 knots mostly. Haven't attempted to measure the tacking angles, but happy with the performance in these conditions. But its lots different when the wind gets light, and boat speed goes down to 4.5 knots or less. The leeway angle increases significantly. Monohulls that I'd go by in good wind drift by me in light winds, probably due to the lack of thickness in the centerboards. btw I have decent sails, a relatively heavy dyneema hybrid genoa, and a north 3Di main.

I've chartered a couple of mini-keel cats, neither of which gave me the same upwind performance in this wind. I couldn't get the same tack angles, and i found that as i tried to point above 40 apparent, my leeway increased without significant increase in heading. Click image for larger version

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