Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-03-2016, 05:10   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 266
Re: catamaran surfs into rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
" Always steer into the skid "
Assuming you have steerage.

I wonder how my cat would behave on such a wave. I presume that initially you are moving faster than the water, as the wave builds on your stern the water starts moving faster than the boat, and that IN BETWEEN, there is a period where no water is flowing past your rudders, and you have no steerage.

And during that time, the captain is furiously trying to steer to starboard, but the water has started to move faster than the boat, hitting the backside of the rudder and pushing him further to port.

Broach City....

Do I have that about right?
paxfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 05:18   #17
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: catamaran surfs into rocks

Incredibly accident with a relatively small wave!!!

It seems the accident was caused mainly by entering the channel at very low speed and that allowed the wave to take full control giving the big difference of speed between the boat and the wave.

To pass an entrance like that max speed is of the essence and a bit of luck too
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 05:37   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 203
Re: catamaran surfs into rocks

SV "Kamanu" in the photo has both engines driving hard.
Backwash in the channel must be fierce.
https://www.google.com/maps/@19.6692...8!8i2736?hl=en
UpOnStands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 08:25   #19
Registered User
 
seasick's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Boat: Brewer designed Pacific 43 in fiberglass. Center cockpit set up for long-distance single handing.
Posts: 472
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

Armchairing this is pointless but going full astern with the starboard engine at the first sign of broaching may have had a positive effect.
seasick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 09:10   #20
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasick View Post
Armchairing this is pointless but going full astern with the starboard engine at the first sign of broaching may have had a positive effect.
No I don't think so. The problem here, besides speed is that he takes the wave slightly sideways from the beginning and when the boat goes sideways descending the wave there is not much he can do.

If he had took the entrance perpendicular to the waves, or if he had took the have perpendicular and when down changed slightly of direction I think that he would not have a problem.

Before they invented those light kayaks for surfing I used to surf waves on a big and heavy kayak. Nothing to do with a surf board, more with a boat and when you go down on a wave sideways you cannot change suddenly of direction. Only when you are down and slightly ahead of the wave that is possible. They just had not the time for that.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 09:18   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: SAnta Cruz 27
Posts: 6,852
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

There was some rumor that one of the engines was not working on the cat, which would have made maneuvering more difficult. The pictures showed that the boat was in little pieces by the next morning.

There was a recent posting on CF extolling the virtues of cats which claimed they don't broach...
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 10:07   #22
Registered User
 
lateral's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: S34 Bob Stewart - 1959 Patiki class. Re--built by me & good mate.
Posts: 1,115
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
No I don't think so. The problem here, besides speed is that he takes the wave slightly sideways from the beginning and when the boat goes sideways descending the wave there is not much he can do.

If he had took the entrance perpendicular to the waves, or if he had took the have perpendicular and when down changed slightly of direction I think that he would not have a problem.

Before they invented those light kayaks for surfing I used to surf waves on a big and heavy kayak. Nothing to do with a surf board, more with a boat and when you go down on a wave sideways you cannot change suddenly of direction. Only when you are down and slightly ahead of the wave that is possible. They just had not the time for that.
+1
You need the rudder full immersed & not bow down or your toast.
Every one on the transom please!
The "kickout" needs to be done with hull speed also, once you have x component sideways you aint going to push thru the white water hard to port.
Bad luck and commiserations to owner, even to someone that surfs regularly
it isnt hard to get committed setup a little awry.
And eat sh_t.
lateral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 10:28   #23
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,352
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

I wonder if she was motoring on a single engine?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
Apologies if its already been discussed.
Salvage efforts underway for catamaran near Honokohau Harbor - Honolulu, Hawaii News and Weather - KITV Channel 4


Second video down page shows complete surf.
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 11:20   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

If you watch the news channel this boat is a charter cat...the type used for evening sunset sails. So, this crew had probably done this entrance a zillion times. They were able to remove the motors before she completely broke up...according to the news. Bad juju that day.
alansmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 11:27   #25
Registered User
 
CLady's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seattle
Boat: Snipe, Roughwater 41, and Islander 36
Posts: 239
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

This part of the Kona coast easily fosters complacency because it is usually quite mild and these cats doing the snorkeling and sunset cruise excursions every day can easily get lured into a sense of ease and not be sharp on considering how a swell could change everything. Entering that harbor can be tricky with this swell and being in the center of the deeper water entrance is prudent. Those "pretty blue swells" can seem innocuous but they can pack a lot of power.
CLady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 11:28   #26
Moderator Emeritus
 
roverhi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

Talked with someone familiar with the boat and captain. Unfortunately he chose a line into the harbor that favored the north side. With virtually no underbody save the rudders, the reverse flow of the wave under the rudder turned the boat toward the rocks and it skidded to it's destruction. They speculate that the only way he could have gotten out of it was with asymmetric engine thrust. With the disaster happening so quickly, that would have been a reaction that probably would only have been possible if he'd had his hands on the engine controls and had preplanned a response.

Seems that partially deployed dagger boards would have helped. The owners of the trimaran I occasionally crew on always leave the center board down under power so the boat has something to pivot on in a turn and maintain heading rather than skid on top of the water.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 13:05   #27
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boat - Greece - Me - Michigan
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 3,489
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
There was a recent posting on CF extolling the virtues of cats which claimed they don't broach...
I didn't see that posting. Do you have a reference to the tread it was in? It would seem that any person who has sailed, or even studied catamarans, or monos, would know that it is possible to broach one.

But in this specific case Don, do you see the boat actually broaching or are you just taking the opportunity to bash the cat crowd.

Made it to post number 22 this time
__________________
Our course is set for an uncharted sea
Dante
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 13:25   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,735
Images: 2
pirate Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

He'd have been better off locking the wheels centre and steering by motors alone.. rudders are useless in these circumstances
__________________

You can't beat a people up for 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".

"It is better to die standing proud, than to live a lifetime on ones knees.."
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 13:39   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 589
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
He'd have been better off locking the wheels centre and steering by motors alone.. rudders are useless in these circumstances
Could one assume then that an engineless or even single engined catamaran
is a dangerous beast then?
Seaslug Caravan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 13:41   #30
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: On the water
Boat: OPBs
Posts: 1,370
Re: Catamaran surfs into rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Before they invented those light kayaks for surfing I used to surf waves on a big and heavy kayak. Nothing to do with a surf board, more with a boat and when you go down on a wave sideways you cannot change suddenly of direction. Only when you are down and slightly ahead of the wave that is possible. They just had not the time for that.
Digging your paddle into the water and throwing your weight over will bring you around if you dig it in hard enough and hold it there. Which takes a bit of strength and confidence but it's possible. I grew up on Australia's Gold Coast messing around on rescue boards, kayaks, anything I could get my hands on, to let you know I'm speaking from experience.

Of course, and as you allude to, the new light kayaks make it a very easy proposition and are a lot of fun.

I am in the camp of wondering if the use of the engines would have helped spin him around. It seems logical. Not knowing, of course, if there were any engine issues at the time and I've never tried it myself. If someone wants to lend me their Cat I'll have a crack at it though
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
catamaran

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Multihull Sailor Surfs In............... thomm225 Multihull Sailboats 10 28-04-2015 16:21
Beware of Rocks ... FLOATING Rocks! David_Old_Jersey Cruising News & Events 13 15-08-2012 00:34
Ship Smashes Into Rocks...Great Picture Colorado Dreamer General Sailing Forum 5 13-10-2008 15:43
US Yachtie hits rocks in NZ Alan Wheeler Cruising News & Events 143 03-07-2008 16:32
Sailing Yacht 'Scarf' Wrecks on Rocks in Lake Worth Inlet on Way to Bahamas Ram Cruising News & Events 19 06-01-2008 20:42

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.