Catamaran live-aboard advice

[Leighpilot]

Here’s the real $64k question. Do you want to build because you like building/ need a unique design or because you want to save money.

Because you won’t save money.

Other than that , your plan looks feasible. Just remember, it’s going to take longer and cost more than you’re planning on. I build a forty footer in four years but I had 6 months of each year free of work and I lived in the boat while building it.

Good luck.

[Leighpilot]

I’ve got an Eclipse. My wife and I occasionally talk about a larger boat until we ask what we’d do with two extra cabins ? The starboard fire bunk , forward of the galley gets used as galley storage and the aft one isn’t used at all. Realistically, it’s just my wife and I sailing her and a bigger boat just becomes more work to sail , more expense etc. 34ft seems the right size for a couple.

[Adornan]

Of course you can live comfortably on a 36ft cat. We did two years on our 43ft, and saw plenty of people on Mahe 36 and lagoon 380 along the way. Personally I like 40ft+ for the load carrying and motion. A few years back I took a good look at the Raku and exchanged a few emails with Tony Grainger. I also had sailed and visited the Spirited 38 and Seawind 1160/1260. I looked at a yard in a Thailand to see if I could reduce costs of the build for a Grainger/schionning or Fusion. In the end I felt like the build time for a kit was going to be more like 3-4000 hours and whilst it would get me something more racey and bespoke there was a lot of risk involved. Buying today I would find a quality second hand boat that I could upgrade to my taste, something with known resale value

[dbraymer]

Been there done that 1000 times.

When I was younger I once put a corvair engine in a VW. It stuck out the back a bit, but, when you hit the throttle the front wheels nearly lifted off.

Now 50 years older, and I assume a tiny bit smarter, I summer drive a really nice 911 SC Porsche Targa (India Red).

The point being not so much that I am a braggard, but rather that there are people out there who have already designed and built exactly what you are looking for. (You just have to research a bit to find that design)

A friend of a friend built a Aleluja 38 (sp) from a kit. Three years later he was still not finished, and said that he had receipts totaling more than a brand new vessel, complete, delivered to his dock!

My dad once said that "Boats are great, but you have to decide whether you are buying it to go somewhere, or to work on it"

If you really would rather build a boat than repair/improve and existing used purchase, fly right ahead and live your dream.

If you actually would want to do some significant sailing, you might keep looking on the used market for something unique, that suits your needs and can be put straight away into sailing condition, and modified/improved in a series of projects.

If you build something entirely from scratch, it will take X times as long as you plan, and cost Y times as much. The X and Y you can control a little bit, but if you multiply them together, the result will be 6!

[Soundhaven]

"The million dollar question is: In your experience, a 36 foot catamaran will have enough space for a young active couple as a live aboard?"

In answer to the actual question in the post...
I have not lived aboard a catamaran.
However, for the past few years, I've lived aboard a 32' monohull with my husband and our very small dog. For us, it is plenty of room.

We no longer own a home on land, although we do have a truck with a camper in which we have lived for a couple months at a time while traveling. We also travel by bike and sleep in a tent.

We have a small 12v refrigerator, which can be used in the boat or the camper. Otherwise, we use an icebox or store items in the bilge next to the chilly water of Puget Sound.

We have Lifeline AGM batteries, which handle our limited electrical needs. We removed our inverter; it was not needed.

Taking into consideration that we are people who thrive in this small, simple, outdoor lifestyle, a 36' catamaran sounds just fine to me.

All the best to you on your adventure of building your own boat and living the life you choose.

[CarlF]

I think your plan is fine EXCEPT trying to justify any part of it by resale value.

It's just a terrible plan with any boat - except perhaps when buying a boat in a charter program (in which case you assume you'll get 50% of what you paid for it after 5 years).

Build a boat that will safely and comfortably take you where you want to go - and most importantly - one that you love and is perfect in your eyes. That's hard enough.

[CaptainRivet]

Forget resale value, it will resell for 30% of your building cost, if you are lucky... Newbee building cat I would never buy, dos not matter how cheap... Sorry I am. Honest.

Get a FP Tobago 35ft, perfect for med. refit it to your liking and go sailing to get experience and what you really need/want instead of 4 years building your never finished dream. It will cost you min 3x what you plan, boat yard fees and lots of unplanned expenses. Life is too short, get out and sail...

[dstraton]

Hi Stephano.
If I had your skills and ambitions, I should consider building a Fusion 40 from a kit. Fusion Kit Catamarans

[catsketcher]

Gday Soundhaven

That seem like really sensible advice, I like the idea of living a simpler life and although I do like a nice tent and a really good inflatable sleeping mat, camping is a great way to work out what you really need.

There is a huge variation in builders making their own boats and while certain people may not want amateur's boats, they are often far better built than production boats. And the time to build them can very hugely.

A cruising friend of mine built his own design cat in 14 months. It is a fabulous boat and it really suits him well. He circumnavigated in it and it is faster and easier to sail than any stock cat I have ever seen. It is a great design that he built on time and on budget. He had a sign on his door, "Do not try to talk to me unless you come at 1pm for my lunch time". He had discipline.

Then there was the guy I met in Island Head Creek in Queensland who sold his production cat in October after it was not up to an ocean crossing and with his wife, they built a 40ft Crowther performance cat in SEVEN months! No kit, just foam and glass. He was cruising the next season! He didn't miss any cruising time on the water. That guy and his wife knew how to work, really hard. Nice boat too. Made me feel like a slow coach.

Then there is the guy who started a trimaran in southern Sydney in the late 80s. He was there when I sailed my Twiggy trimaran to Botany Bay in 1989, a year or two away from finishing. Every year I would go and say gday and he would emerge from his sleeping nook and have a chat, boat and tools covered in dust. He died a little while ago and now the boat is unfinished and may never be launched.

I love the fact that I built my boat. I have learnt so much about myself and boats. I could get myself a job building or fixing boats just by sailing up to a boatyard. Big hole in the boat in the middel of nowhere, no worries. In fact I have helped out other people with holes in their boat when cruising because I knew what to do. Certainly people can pay others to fix their boats in harbour but when out there, having an owner built boat in the anchorage with tools and materials on it increases the safety of others in the bay. I can fix everything on my own cat and so I save huge amounts of money compared to those who haven't done the apprenticeship and learnt boat work. Building a boat can SAVE you money if you do it well, do it hard, do it determinedly and do it because it is part of the adventure, to learn about boats, life and yourself. But do get it done. My life would be less interesting, and I would have lived it less, if I hadn't built our cat.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Catsketcher that advice can also be said about monohulls. The lighter they are the better they sail. I remember a couple who circumnavigated with a steel yacht being surprised how quick she sailed without all their gear onboard. I never got to discuss with them if it was worth sailing slower in return for having all their comforts and a mountain of spares onboard.

And that was my point earlier.
We can all say we will build light and keep it light and not carry much in the way of stuff to keep them sailing well but the reality is, for all but a very small few, you do end up carrying more gear and, over time, they go down on their lines and performance and to some degree safety is compromised.

The bigger boat even if its just bigger hulls (so the 36 on 40+ft hulls) will always be the better boat and, if building would be the way id go.
Hulls are pretty cheap.

[lo2jones]

Long time charter captain (me) says PDQ 36, Prout are good livaboard boats. I had two small families on a PDQ 36 and room was more than adequate. Boats under 40 ft work better with galley down.

[Christmas Beetle]

My quick reply which includes I am nearly 60,
I love and own a Grainger which has just turned 21. I was not the original “home” builder but my experience in many different professions including building homes is that:
1) I am not an expert at boat building and the fitout can cost more than then the original base build
2) It is a bit like buying a four wheel vehicle or a home and then fitting it out is a hidden cost that comes back to haught us especially when considering “live aboard” type capabilities / functionality
3) Insurance can also be a problem as I have just experienced whereby my usual insurance Providor has excluded “home built” yachts and then other insurance providers have unrealistic requirements such as annual out of water surveys + rigging reports let alone the increased cost of the insurance
In summary - investigate, experience other cats first e.g. join a yacht club and then if you really want to, build with a certified boatbuilder to oversee your build which includes some sort of certification / sign off.
In other words, if you don’t have the experience - experience others first

[Bunji]

Originally Posted by Stefano_90

Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum and have been reading for a while trying to soak all the information, but I think is time to ask more specific questions.

I am 31 now and since this last two years I am feeling a compelling need to get away from society and been dreaming for enough time to get on a boat and sail away.

I am settled on a small/medium catamaran rather than monohull, and I am settled on building one, since I am good with manual work and have the means to do it. Further to that, I would rather spend my time creating some value for a new design boat that will have good resale value in a few years, rather than refitting an old hull. ( Build a small one--> sail it a few years---> sell it and get a bigger one)

I have also pretty much settled down on a Raku ( Grainger design), I have been in contact with the designer and he's been very helpful with my 1000 questions but now the choice is mine.
The million dollar question is: In your experience, a 36 foot catamaran will have enough space for a young active couple as a live aboard?
The actual displacement figures are:
Light ship 3000kg
Waterline level 3700
Max 4500
Which should mean that we could carry max 1500 kg including fuel and water, or about 700 kg personal belongings.
We would really need a basic fit out, no fuss.

Looking at the plans here I would also do without the single bed( would become wardrobe) and I would trade the fixed bed in the saloon for a sofa bed ( where the seats and table transform in a bed) so the saloon would have more space.

https://www.graingerdesigns.net/raku...arans/raku-36/


The obvious reason why I am asking opinions is that a 36' would see the water a good 1000 hours of work earlier with approximately 60000USD less material cost ( estimated by the builder) and at my age these would be 2 years of bonus cruising!

Another design I would have considered would have been Oram ( a 39 would be perfect) but apparently he is retired and I really don't know how to get a hold of him..

Shionning arrow 1200 looks very race oriented with 14.5:1 LB ratio I suspect the same space in the hulls as a Raku 36, with the higher price.

Cheers!

Give Bob a ring 0490064789 he has a friends 39c on the market (earlier model) check out yacht hub, the original owner/builder built 2 orams or maybe he can help you out with plans to build your own 39c or 44c.
Bob has a very commonsense and practical approach to boat building, like he says it ain’t rocket science

[tcpbob]

interesting comments on this thread, a lot of good information. here is my bit. what Bob Oram called the 39C was hashed out between me and him to build a boat that i thought was the answer to a lot of problems in the Australian cat market at that time. i built it and sailed all around SE asia and now am in the caribbean.

resale value... if the quality of finish is good your value is there. some people have it and some don't. i have been asked on many occasions what brand of boat mine is, usually after a boat runs circles around me enough to be unnerving until they tell me why they are so interested. that kind of attention suggests the market value is there. can you do first rate work?
on size - i think 36 foot is very limiting on resale value and has been mentioned earlier, can be a hobby horse problem. i think 12 meters is acceptable. BareBones is slightly over that actually, but don't tell ok...
materials used is important. i advocate foam. trustworthy in build and a familiar market acceptance. i used duflex/balsa on some of my boat but do not recommend it.

i find 12 meters an easy handling boat.

i believe the savings in a 36 foot cat would be punished in a resale market.
i have provided a web site that shows all the construction problems and victories at www.buildacat.com, click on the BareBones project.
i found that the process was very rewarding in spite of the problems.

the question you have to ask is, is it in you?

and btw, hard to go wrong with Tony Grainger designs

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Bunji

Give Bob a ring 0490064789 he has a friends 39c on the market (earlier model) check out yacht hub, the original owner/builder built 2 orams or maybe he can help you out with plans to build your own 39c or 44c.
Bob has a very commonsense and practical approach to boat building, like he says it ain’t rocket science

Looking at Bobs build, it’s no rocket science, it’s spaceship science
Holy cow, I am a handymen and are quite skilled in cfk, engine…but I wouldn‘t do it in a million years…so many things can go wrong and building that cat straight is the major challenge…plus epoxy is very unhealthy. Outfitting a ready made hull with top yes.
Forget 36ft, you are constantly overloaded as liveabord which means it sails bad, permanent bridge deck slamming…700kg personal belongings is just the tools and spares you need and I carry…add another 400kg for food+ dingy with everything 100kg, Davits with proper solar 150kg min+….

I was at the same point, from space a 35ft cat would do it for me but if you lifeaboard and do serious bluewater cruising 38ft is absolute minimum absolutely everybody skilled advised that , better 40ft. Major point Payload and you want/need min 2,5t as you should Max use 80% of it (means 2t real load with everything) with 2 persons and occasionally 4-6persons. The slimmer the hulls the less payload eg a 40ft Lavezzi has 2,7t, the comparable Lagoon 400 3,8t. Guess who sails well and who not…
Hobby horsing, behavior in the waves, bridge deck slamming are additional major points. So in the end after crewing and testing on different 35 and 36ft I ended up buying a 40ft FP Lavezzi and yes all advisors were right about the major points.