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Old 31-10-2016, 17:33   #31
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

Pitchpoling is usually only an issue going downwind.
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Old 31-10-2016, 18:05   #32
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

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This may not be relevant due to the fact that he was motoring into port, but shouldn't a cat normally be taking those waves at a 45 degree angle to avoid pitch poling?
The boat is hobby horsing - not unique to catamarans but definitely uncomfortable.
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Old 31-10-2016, 18:22   #33
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

My wife watched the video and made a good point, there's no way that catamaran is heading into a port. Those waves can't be generated by winds coming off the land.... not enough fetch. Most likely, the cat is trying to head upwind towards a safe harbor and being filmed by someone on a larger vessel.

Nothing wrong with what the skipper is doing, we've all been there, 'just trying to make the best of a difficult situation.
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Old 31-10-2016, 18:25   #34
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

correct me if I am wrong but the motion exhibited in the OP video is pretty specific to cats as their lack of ballast and drag means that their motions are, in the situation shown, far more vigorous than a monohull of the same length.
Of course depending on speed the mono may end up being swamped if unable to rise fast enough to meet the next wave.

wind contra to tide in shallow water - not recommended
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Old 31-10-2016, 18:34   #35
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

I'm sure I'm wrong (and will no doubt be told so), but that video reminds me of pictures (maybe videos?) of a cat that was abandoned by its crew during the Queens Birthday storm near New Zealand in 1994 I think.

The crew decided to abandon ship and was picked up by a ship that was in the area. If that is the case the cat would probably have deployed fenders in preparation for coming alongside the ship.

In the original case I refer to, the crew abandoned ship successfully.
I also believe that the abandoned catamaran was found after the storm drifting peacefully along.
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Old 31-10-2016, 18:38   #36
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

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I'm sure I'm wrong (and will no doubt be told so), but that video reminds me of pictures (maybe videos?) of a cat that was abandoned by its crew during the Queens Birthday storm near New Zealand in 1994 I think.

The crew decided to abandon ship and was picked up by a ship that was in the area. If that is the case the cat would probably have deployed fenders in preparation for coming alongside the ship.

In the original case I refer to, the crew abandoned ship successfully.
I also believe that the abandoned catamaran was found after the storm drifting peacefully along.
I'm pretty sure that's a FP Belize 43 and the first one wasn't built until 2000.
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Old 31-10-2016, 19:28   #37
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

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I'm sure I'm wrong (and will no doubt be told so), but that video reminds me of pictures (maybe videos?) of a cat that was abandoned by its crew during the Queens Birthday storm near New Zealand in 1994 I think.
.
here is photo of one rescue of crew from cat Ramtha
sea state is quite different
http://www.pangolin.co.nz/sites/defa...tsam/21-1b.jpg
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Old 31-10-2016, 19:34   #38
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
I'm sure I'm wrong (and will no doubt be told so), but that video reminds me of pictures (maybe videos?) of a cat that was abandoned by its crew during the Queens Birthday storm near New Zealand in 1994 I think.

The crew decided to abandon ship and was picked up by a ship that was in the area. If that is the case the cat would probably have deployed fenders in preparation for coming alongside the ship.

In the original case I refer to, the crew abandoned ship successfully.
I also believe that the abandoned catamaran was found after the storm drifting peacefully along.
It sounds like you are referring to Ramtha, and yes, the cat was recovered and returned to the owners... a very nice story in itself.

But are you kidding? Fenders? Coming alongside? This was in winds >75knots and enormous seas, seas that were the worst the c.o.of the Manuwai (sp?) (a NZ navy survey ship of >100 meters OAL) had ever seen, seas that caused the Manuwai to heave to for self preservation. Come Alongside??

Actually, they positioned themselves something like 50-100 meters away and shot a line to Ramtha with a floatation harness attached. This was donned one at a time by the crew, and then they were dragged through the sea to the ship. I spoke to Robin some time later, and she said she was sure she was going to die along the way... a terrifying experience!

Not sure what this has to do with the subject of this thread, but every now and then some reality should be introduced.

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Old 31-10-2016, 21:27   #39
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

I counted 9 fenders on the port side, 0 on starboard. When I first saw the video, I immediately thought he was heading in to a marina. The fenders appear to have flung over the lifelines, not dropped. Most likely they leave them on deck all the time, but why so many unless their marina is not sheltered or they have expect a lot of cross wind.

Otherwise, I would have some sail up to stabilize, but I sail a mono, not a cat. I would also be on a run. Not the time to practice heaving to! 50% jib, 33% main, jack lines, tether the lifejacket! My wife would most likely be asleep in the cockpit under the spray hood.
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Old 31-10-2016, 22:28   #40
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

When I listen to the audio on Vid 1 I can hear a plane landing or coming in close. I suspect that the harbour is near a point and that some sea is wrapping around the point. I don't think the camera is on a ship or it would move slightly too. Airports aren't close to ships either.

In that much wind on that type of cat the owner is probably doing what is needed to get in as fast as they can. Without an inner forestay and staysail the furled jib would be pretty useless in pointing high into the wind and raising the main for what might have been a 2 mile motor around a point would have been wild. As an aside monos and multis seem to pitch pretty similarly. I once spent an afternoon watching a northerly come into a north facing anchorage. As soon as the wavelength of the waves got to half the boats LWL they started to really pitch. The pinched in bow, big bum monos did pitch a little earlier than their more even cousins but waterline length, full ends and low CG are important, not really how many hulls you have.

The other cat video doesn't really ring true. There may have been a gust at the same time the masthead ripped to windward causing an uncalibrated anenometer to read 53 knots but 53 is at the upper end of Force 10 on the Beaufort scale "Large waves (6-9 meters), overhanging crests, sea becomes white with foam, heavy rolling, reduced visibility." I didn't see this on the video. The waves looked about 1-2 metres. I don't think a tightly furled genoa would be a good idea in this amount of wind let alone a half furled one.

Here in Australia the difference between what the weather bureau says is 50 knots and what some sailors think is 50 knots became a real problem in the 98 Hobart. On every forecast is a disclaimer saying "Wind gusts can be 40 percent stronger than the averages given here and maximum waves may be up to twice the height". It is important to understand that a consistent blow is very different from a single gust on a moving mast. When the forecast is for 50 knots you probably should be tied up at home rather than looking at the anenometer.
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Old 31-10-2016, 22:38   #41
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

Some links to pages about Ramtha. She survived the storm with no-one helping and no parachute out.

The 1994 Queen's birthday storm | Pangolin



"For most boats worst conditions occurred on 4th June when several were reporting winds of 50 to 60 knots with corresponding sea conditions."
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Old 31-10-2016, 23:36   #42
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

Looks a bit like my neck of the woods - we have a problem here in Maputo mozambique where the marina is a "hole" in a straight wall which runs along the city. In certain conditions when you have an extreme high tide together with right wind direction you get large short interval swells (3m deep water) that hits the wall at a parallel angle and bounce back to sea.

This means you have a swell running forward and backwards making for a bouncy trip through the inlet irrespective what type of vessel you are in. Steering is also an issue and you tend to have to work the steering very hard to keep pointing to the inlet. It doesn't help that sail boats have less power available so it seems to take forever and be a bit nerve wrecking
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:06   #43
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

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Looks a bit like my neck of the woods -
nicely done intro video
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Old 01-11-2016, 03:09   #44
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

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Hi All

A regular visitor to the form, seldom posting. First time ever where I felt the need to comment on the negativity of comments on a post. Unless I missed first parts of posts etc. the video of the cat is clearly an attempt to get into a restricted area and he is forced to have that angle against waves and wind. Why so negative, here is a sailor clearly trying to do the best under circumstances he was the best to evaluate at the time (he was on the yacht!). Same goes for the guys on the monohull, clearly they are young and have a long learning curve, provide them with positive suggestions!
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:07   #45
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Re: Cat in 10-15' seas with around 3-4 second period

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I'm sure I'm wrong (and will no doubt be told so), but that video reminds me of pictures -----
Well at least part of my post was correct lol,
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