Can you have Comfort, Value and Performance in a Catamaran?

[jcoghill2]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

But I still wonder why they are so slow.

A catamaran if designed that way can have less wetted surface are than a monohull. Most of them are not designed that way because to do so radically affects their livability. As a result of being designed more for livability than speed these boats tend to be heavy. Big boats are heavy boats. Heavy boats are slow boats. I can relate to the need for speed but you have to understand that sailing was never something that you can do fast. But if you want a recommendation for one of the fastest cats I've seen look at a used Outremer with daggerbords. They haven't made many so your selections will be limited but I have never seen a faster boat in a demonstration. 22 kts on a really good day but most of the time you'll be doing around 7 or 8 kts and still 2-3 kts faster than a keel boat of the same size and weight. It also is a very livable boat.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by markiobe

Not sure I agree, dagger boards are required for upwind performance but add little to nothing on other points of sail. Smaller yes, but Seawind 1260 is a quick boat and the Maverick 440 is maybe slightly less, neither have d’boards.

On other points of sail daggerboards are raised, significantly reducing drag.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Still can't believe not a single comment from anyone on the boat I linked in post 86.
An almost new, what looks to be an Atlantic 48 and looks well made. Those are Aussie dollars so you could spend $100k shipping it to wherever (but why would you?) and still have a few years worth of cruising kitty out of your budget.

sorry I meant post 68, trying to do it on a phone... ...https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...tamaran/234934
It's the original Atlantic 48 design with a standard rig.
A potential bargain for someone shopping with $450K fat US dollars and wanting a new boat.
Probably not enough beds for the OP?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by markiobe

Not sure I agree, dagger boards are required for upwind performance but add little to nothing on other points of sail. Smaller yes, but Seawind 1260 is a quick boat and the Maverick 440 is maybe slightly less, neither have d’boards.

As 44'Cruisingcat states retracting the boards when running significantly reduces drag. There are several other advantages to dagger boards other than pointing ability.

With boards up a cat will sail dead downwind under head sails in ocean swells without yawing.

With boards up surfing, the lack of keels means the control surfaces "rudders" are well aft resulting in superior control and ease of operation for the autopilot, under the same conditions there is no tendency to round up around the keels, broach, at the end of a surf run or if the rudders cavitate in breaking waves.

In storm conditions with the boards up it is possible to lay a hull without fear of sideways wave impacts, the bows are pushed off and the boat simply slides side ways.

In tidal or strong current conditions the board(s) can be adjusted to balance the sails, similarly in certain wind conditions adjusting the boards will enable optimum apparent wind angles.

[vanrudder]

Grown out of Barramundicatamarans and Brazapicatamarans there is the new make Dondra catamarans which give you everything you are requiring for.44 or 52 feet. Buid in the super new and modern yard Elica yard. Websites in making. interested for more information? Write to info@dondra-catamaran.com All your questions will be answered.

What do you want to do ?
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[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Try rereading it, It was a humourous post,

About a one off comment that on exceedingly rare occasions,
You cant put your coffee cup down on a Cat and it wont stay where you put it,

Thinking about my shake down cruise in Bass Straight,
And the violent storm I got caught in,
Its been seven years since I last sailed my boat,
So I am actually relearning how to sail my boat as well,

A few errors on my part were involved, Im Human, I make mistakes,

Both my centre boards were fully up, Bad mistake on my part,
My boat sits on the surface, It has a draught of 600 mm, 18 inches,
Which allows my boat to spin around 90 and 180 degrees with out the boards down at least a third,

My AP was stuffed so it was all hand steering,
The storm was too violent to go below to drop the board down a bit,
And I didnt think of lowering the boards any way, My relearning curve,
Which would have kept the boat steering straight,

I dont think the boards down would have alleviated the violent sideways swings that dumped every thing on the floor,
being at 45 degrees sideways, My coffee cup would have fallen off any thing,
Not that I was going to make a cup of coffee in those conditions,
Which also had me worried that the mast would snap off, It was getting bashed violently,

It was bad enough when the filters clogged and the motor stopped,
Kneeling on the floor of the cockpit cleaning out the filters,
That was one wild ride, Hahahaha With the boat bucking all over the place,

I had moved the filters from the engine bay on the transom to inside the cockpit and added a fuel pump in there as well with an OFF- ON switch,
So I could prime the injectors before I started the motor,
The motor was an instant start up again,
Only took a few minutes to clean out the filters and restart the motor,
Im very pleased I did that,

Being only 2 or 3 miles off the coast, Vertical cliffs and rocky beaches,
The filters still being on the transom, deep inside the engine bay, and standing on my head to clean them out, In pitch black darkness, I dont think I would have made it, Fact of life, The wind was blowing towards the shore,
But it was an entertaining ride, I learnt a lot about my boats capability,

Cheers, Brian,

[RELENTLESS 1]

Sorry if I did not read every post...but I did not see Outremer 45 - which is really a 48'. It is not as lux as a Privilege, which we looked at before going w/a Outremer 51 ourselves. But at $750K you are close to a new 45 - which gives you a 2 year end to end warranty and was a big factor in us buying new. FYI the Privileges are SLOW...like any prod cat they need a lot of wind. See Ruby Rose - the Seawind is a good option too w/inside helms. As for the 'Daggerboard ripping fear' it is a canard, at least on an Outremer - if you see the construction - the daggerboard trunk is bulletproof and no amount of impact will damage the watertightness of the trunk - the board will shatter long before that. FWIW IMHO 'lux' is more than cushy - it is the luxury of getting their days ahead of the other boats (see ARC article how a Cat w/4 crew doing yoga beat a True Ocean 12 man hot bunking racing mono - by days!). Luxury is missing storms, not beating yourself for extra hours or days, and picking your window because you are faster, which means more lux time at the beach!
If you want a good used one - they come available but almost NEVER make it to YW or online - I can give you the name of our Broker who seems to always hear about these boats when they come available - and believe it or not is HONEST!! ask for Pete McGonagle at Swiftsure Yachts Seattle.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

As a point of reference, it is informative to look at the ARC results. ARC boats are typically cruising boats, outfitted for cruising, while it is a "race" it is certainly no Whitbread. Finish times can tell something about the boats, especially if you look at boats who used little or no engine time.

This debate pops up every now and then. There is, occasionally, definitely some boats that treat the ARC as a race. The vast majority treat it as what it is, though, and that's a cruise. Without knowing how many crew they have, what sails they have, how they sailed the boat it's very easy to come up with illogical conclusions. I'm not sure it's really all that useful.

[RELENTLESS 1]

The article was in one of the Multi mags a month or two ago - we are packing to leave so I didn't save it, but in the article the Mono (a 60' purpose built) was using the ARC as a 'practice' - thus the 12 man crew and hot bunking....

[dgmyles]

So it may not quite be 48 foot but the Seawind 1260 would tick every other box. The build quality space and performance are exceptional. Or stretch the budget a little and have a look at the 1600.

[Beginnings]

If you are willing to go down one size the the Saona 47 might be an option for you. We just bought a new one, and while that’s going to take you above your price, you can certainly get a used one in that range. We looked at Lagoon, FP, and Leopards in the 42-50ft range and I felt more comfortable in the Saona 47 then any of the others. We also examine the Knysna and the Exquisite. I’m also 6’ 3” and found the Saona 47 was also the only one I could easily walk around without having to duck all the time. In fact I didn’t have to duck at all and having hit my head more times than I care to admit, that meant a lot to me.

[Astroman]

Originally Posted by Beginnings

If you are willing to go down one size the the Saona 47 might be an option for you. We just bought a new one, and while that’s going to take you above your price, you can certainly get a used one in that range. We looked at Lagoon, FP, and Leopards in the 42-50ft range and I felt more comfortable in the Saona 47 then any of the others. We also examine the Knysna and the Exquisite. I’m also 6’ 3” and found the Saona 47 was also the only one I could easily walk around without having to duck all the time. In fact I didn’t have to duck at all and having hit my head more times than I care to admit, that meant a lot to me.

Of the big three production cats, I do like the Fountaine Pajot the best. I think the 47 or the 50 would be a great choice. I'm actively looking for a used model as the new Model are a year out.

[Astroman]

Originally Posted by dgmyles

So it may not quite be 48 foot but the Seawind 1260 would tick every other box. The build quality space and performance are exceptional. Or stretch the budget a little and have a look at the 1600.

Seawind 1600 checks the boxes except for delivery date. Next available is April 2023.

Life is too short to wait three years to sail.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Astroman

Seawind 1600 checks the boxes except for delivery date. Next available is April 2023.

Life is too short to wait three years to sail.

The delivery date is 2023 because the Seawind 1600 checks many’s boxes!

[Svan]

Perhaps the OP has tuned out this thread as it has really wandered.

I question the need for four cabins. How old are your kids and why can’t they bunk up and how long will it be till one moves out? A cat very naturally has three bunks and a head with a convertible salon table in the middle.

I am quite fond of my PDQ and thus Antares and cant imagine how it has dropped off your list.

I think you should give thoughts to things like docking and just being on this boat you and your wife. Not every place has room for a 50’ boat. Have you landed one that size? My biggest docking was a 51 and I would not enjoy repeating it.