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20-04-2022, 20:50
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
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Buying older built trimarans
I'm looking to buy an older tri from the late 80s . There are a few options that are all built from strip cedar and West epoxy. I have read a few threads stating that old CSP hulls don't last !
Whats the consensus from people with real life experience with these older trimarans ? I would appreciate some real feedback from people with old cedar boats . Thank you.
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20-04-2022, 22:45
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 717
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Following
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21-04-2022, 00:03
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 989
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Strip plank is great. I am writing this on my 22 year old SPC and ply cat that is still going beautifully. There is lots of silly stuff written by people who have a bad experience with one material but a well built boat will be well built in any material. Spc boats are epoxy and usually have high spec stitched fabric reinforcement. They are often amateur built and usually lighter than production boats. At 22 years old my hulls are in great Nick and my boat has never had a blister or delamination.
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21-04-2022, 02:07
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 989
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Tris, as opposed tp cats, can suffer from a lack of ventilation in the floats and crossbeams. Even epoxy cannot in itself protect a poorly ventilated boat which is neglected. A 25 year olf ply tri I knew well died of rot from a lack of maintenance and poor ventilation. Jim Brown talks of this with his Searunner series. He likes having open inspection ports in protected areas to improve ventilation.
When you go inside a multi - try and get there with the owner as they open the boat up. It should not be terribly musty but it will feel closed up. If there is substantial condensation in the boat then there could be rot issues. Not so much with the strip cedar itself - it is encapsulated in epoxy laminate - but in the ply or timber bulkheads and floors.
Look for black under the epoxy - this is a sure sign of water ingress and damage. If it is very localised the boat may be okay but I would walk away from substantial black timber - rot is always more extensive than first thought.
BUt the cedar strip itself is a great material. It used to be cheaper than foam and so many builders (like myself) used it for this reason. Also it was easier to set up on the mould frames, being stiffer than foam. Cedar hulls are better at resisting dinghy and dock bashes than 80kg/m foam with light laminates and as I stated before - cedar requires the use of epoxy, which is a much better resin system than polyester, which foam often uses.
So you can get a great tri out of cedar strip. I would check the boat is well cared for as water ingress could be an issue. We once grazed the forefoot when anchoring so I slipped the boat and checked the hull. All I had done was graze the filler over the laminate, but I needed to antifoul anyway and was glad to repair the graze and make all new again.
As for designs - I really like to way cedar allowed designers to produce shapes that were hydrodynamically proper. I have a few friends with flat pack boats and some of them are happy with their boats, but wish that the flat bottom was more veed, to reduce slamming. You get the shape you want with a cedar strip hull.
cheers
Phil
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21-04-2022, 02:13
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#5
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,761
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsketcher
... There is lots of silly stuff written by people who have a bad experience with one material but a well built boat will be well built in any material ...
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Most Trimarans were home built - some with more skill, some with less.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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21-04-2022, 05:20
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 360
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Nothing wrong at all cedar as a core material providing the boat was well built and has been in the care of responsible owner. My first trimaran was built out of Duracore, balsa core with hardwood veneers strips, and that boat has had zero issues after 30 years. About 9 years ago I sailed on an amateur built cedar strip Chris White Hammerhead 54 trimaran from Newfoundland to Greenland. Two storms along the way, one with gusts to 58 knots, we keep sailing through it all. Not a creak or a groan from the trimaran going to weather with 3 reefs in the main and a Gale sail up forward. Hire a good surveyor, size up the current owner, and then make your decision. A well designed, well built trimaran is a joy to sail.
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21-04-2022, 15:38
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#7
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Langkawi, Malaysia
Boat: Jay Kantola - Trimaran 65 ft by 40 ft beam
Posts: 1,164
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyc
Nothing wrong at all cedar as a core material providing the boat was well built and has been in the care of responsible owner. My first trimaran was built out of Duracore, balsa core with hardwood veneers strips, and that boat has had zero issues after 30 years. About 9 years ago I sailed on an amateur built cedar strip Chris White Hammerhead 54 trimaran from Newfoundland to Greenland. Two storms along the way, one with gusts to 58 knots, we keep sailing through it all. Not a creak or a groan from the trimaran going to weather with 3 reefs in the main and a Gale sail up forward. Hire a good surveyor, size up the current owner, and then make your decision. A well designed, well built trimaran is a joy to sail.
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The hulls of my former vessel was also cold molded using Duracore. She was launched in 2000 and is still serving up to 65 tourists per day trip. This sandwich construction with West System epoxy is stronger than a fiberglass only design. Of course you have to keep water out.
Therefore, the people that go wrong with these designs simply do things the wrong way. I.E. they just take a power drill and screw in tons of screws to install posts for life lines with no consideration that every hole is now a source of water to rot the inside. For this reason you need to know who was taking care of the vessel and what modifications they made.
Any damage cannot be ignored with this construction and repairs must be prompt.
Core construction in general can also be an issue even if no moisture comes into play. For example on the heavily traffic areas of my vessels the constant pounding of feet caused the interior foam to slowly compress. I was starting to get some spring in the decks as a result. To cure this problem I injected a large amount of concrete crack epoxy. It is a cheap very slow cure epoxy that flowed into my core. This fix resulted in decks that were like walking on a concrete sidewalk.
If you ever do a repair like this I will share a secret with you. Ketchup bottles. I bought about ten of them and drilled dozens and dozens of holes in the deck surface. I then filled the bottles with epoxy and tipped them upside down to slowly flow into the core. I then filled from hole to hole until no more epoxy was accepted. I went through about 5 sets of 2 gallons each. However, my vessel was quite large. I didn't bother with a layer of fiberglass over all the holes. I just sanded and faired everything smooth again. Since it was a deck I was not looking for a perfect surface. You would never know where the holes were unless I looked closely with you to find one.
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21-04-2022, 18:33
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyc
Nothing wrong at all cedar as a core material providing the boat was well built and has been in the care of responsible owner. My first trimaran was built out of Duracore, balsa core with hardwood veneers strips, and that boat has had zero issues after 30 years. About 9 years ago I sailed on an amateur built cedar strip Chris White Hammerhead 54 trimaran from Newfoundland to Greenland. Two storms along the way, one with gusts to 58 knots, we keep sailing through it all. Not a creak or a groan from the trimaran going to weather with 3 reefs in the main and a Gale sail up forward. Hire a good surveyor, size up the current owner, and then make your decision. A well designed, well built trimaran is a joy to sail.
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One of my all time favourite's the Hammerhead. I believe only 2 where built , or was this one a 3rd ? Must have been a great experience !
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21-04-2022, 18:40
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
I had read so many articles about CSP subject to movement over time and other negative remarks. So its good to read real life positive experiences. Thank you for all your answers.
Someone els posted about pimping older trimarans. If I purchase one. I would consider a few modern upgrades. Carbon mast would be one.
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21-04-2022, 19:07
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#10
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 7,152
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
When I was building my boat, early 80's, I got to know two builders building trimarans. One was a Piver the other a Jim Brown. The Piver was built using plywood, the Brown cedar strip plank. Both used the West System epoxy. I also got to know a Searunner tri. All these tri's were around for a very long time, before they disappeared from my radar screen, but the build quality was never in dispute.
Any 80's boat would likely need a good out of the water survey, especially so, a wood boat, but if it was properly built originally, likely has much to offer.
They can likely be picked up for very little to boot. As noted above, most tri's were homebuilt. It won't take much to determine of the original builder did a good job or not.
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21-04-2022, 22:20
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
There is an interesting tri for sale , just a long way away .
https://www.leboncoin.fr/nautisme/2131146878.htm
I like the interior layout a lot. Almost like having a bridge deck. Shame its in such a difficult location. Also says its not finished, so not sure if she is on the water or not.
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22-04-2022, 05:01
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 5,067
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Mine was strip planked/epoxy also. The top sides were ply I think. I had a nasty gash on the hull just above the water line. I could only duct tape it until I could get hauled out 6 months later. The core got wet for sure but there was less than an inch of water migration so it was really simple to dry it out and patch. That boat was solid with no soft spots and survived a collision with a 150' boat (his fault, I was tied at the dock). I only had it 15.5 knots but it could do more!
__________________
Slowly going senile but enjoying the ride.
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22-04-2022, 05:10
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab
Mine was strip planked/epoxy also. The top sides were ply I think. I had a nasty gash on the hull just above the water line. I could only duct tape it until I could get hauled out 6 months later. The core got wet for sure but there was less than an inch of water migration so it was really simple to dry it out and patch. That boat was solid with no soft spots and survived a collision with a 150' boat (his fault, I was tied at the dock). I only had it 15.5 knots but it could do more!
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Yes I think easier to fix than foam core as well.
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22-04-2022, 07:19
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#14
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Langkawi, Malaysia
Boat: Jay Kantola - Trimaran 65 ft by 40 ft beam
Posts: 1,164
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV
When I was building my boat, early 80's, I got to know two builders building trimarans. One was a Piver the other a Jim Brown. The Piver was built using plywood, the Brown cedar strip plank. Both used the West System epoxy. I also got to know a Searunner tri. All these tri's were around for a very long time, before they disappeared from my radar screen, but the build quality was never in dispute.
Any 80's boat would likely need a good out of the water survey, especially so, a wood boat, but if it was properly built originally, likely has much to offer.
They can likely be picked up for very little to boot. As noted above, most tri's were homebuilt. It won't take much to determine of the original builder did a good job or not.
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I have been doing a little dive into history too as I contemplate my next move.
I came across Jim Brown's book and think anyone looking at a trimaran should read it. His website says unsecure..however..it is okay to click on. OutRig Media | Welcome to Jim Brown's OutRigMedia
My first book on multihulls is available on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Cruising-Mult.../dp/0070698686
Yesterday I while adding some information to the single paragraph page for Jay Kantola on wikipedia...I found read the wikipedia page for Piver. I never knew he went off sailing in a and was never heard from again.
Wiki for Piver... (pronounced PIE-VER)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Piver
Wiki for Lock Crowther
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_Crowther
Wiki for Jay Kantola
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Kantola
There is currently no wiki to my knowledge for Kurt Hughes or Meade Gougeon, Joel Gougeon, and Jan Gougeon
and while writing adding to the wiki for Kantola I found a great video showing the building of the movie models Titanic. Kantola designed the vessel and it was built by Richard Barrie's team. Richard built my former vessel that was known as Windswept.
Please please,,,can someone from California confirm who is standing in front of the model at 2:04. I am pretty sure it is Richard Barrie but not 100% sure.
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22-04-2022, 09:55
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#15
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Langkawi, Malaysia
Boat: Jay Kantola - Trimaran 65 ft by 40 ft beam
Posts: 1,164
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Re: Buying older built trimarans
I just found this 32 minute audio interview with John Marples talking about constant camber.
John Marples talks about Constant Camber
Importantly he discusses how this construction eliminates internal frames.
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