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Old 30-08-2017, 23:08   #1
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Broker/surveyor needed in NC

I'm considering buying a catamaran in North Carolina and need a recommendation for a broker to represent me (and surveyor too). Does anyone have any recommendations? Looking to move forward asap. Thanks !
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Old 31-08-2017, 07:48   #2
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Pretty please
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Old 31-08-2017, 14:02   #3
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Here's a surveyor that came highly recommended to me by quite a few people.
http://www.marinesurveyor.com/eberle/
Not sure about a broker.
What kind of cat?
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Old 31-08-2017, 23:51   #4
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

If engaging a Marine Surveyor take the time to at least ask these three questions:

1) Does the Surveyor have experience with Pre Purchase Surveys and as importantly with the type of vessel you are considering

2) What Survey Society is he associated with and his standing(ie: Full member/associate / affiliate etc) and is he a current member

3) Does he carry full P&I Insurance (Professional Indemnity Liability Insurance)

https://www.iims.org.uk/

Cheers Steve (MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:13   #5
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captsteve53 View Post
If engaging a Marine Surveyor take the time to at least ask these three questions:

1) Does the Surveyor have experience with Pre Purchase Surveys and as importantly with the type of vessel you are considering

2) What Survey Society is he associated with and his standing(ie: Full member/associate / affiliate etc) and is he a current member

3) Does he carry full P&I Insurance (Professional Indemnity Liability Insurance)

https://www.iims.org.uk/

Cheers Steve (MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)
I would add the following . . . .

4) Does he go aloft to inspect mast/rigging. If not you'll need to hire a rigger to do so.

5) Does he have a thermal imaging camera in his bag of tricks (very useful on cored boats).

6) How extensive of an external engine inspection will he do. Hull surveyors normally do not do an internal engine inspection (ie. compression test). Give serious consideration of hiring a diesel mechanic.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:33   #6
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

As you say the three items are NOT part of a usual Pre Purchase Survey and normally specified as such in the report,

The problem with these items is both technical in nature and the requirement for specialist knowledge but also time related as most prospective owners although wanting a decisive report dont like the financial aspects of such inclusive action points,

I for one always ask prior to a Survey what specific area's if any would the client wish to include and present the cost for doing so, the acceptance form for the client to sign prior to the Survey should out line the area's not included as there are many others such as removal of fixed panels/fixed floor boards etc as again time consuming but comes with issues from the current owners as to removing things on there vessel and it's liability,

For a normal Pre Survey report i would ask for a sea trial (with the owners on board) and check the engine gauges/general starting and running condition/ full or near full power for 20 minutes etc .

Here's a few more tips regarding purchase of a used vessel:

• Make sure that when you put in an offer you indicate that it is subject to a Marine Survey and, if necessary, a sea trial.Dry Docking
• If using Marine Finance to make the purchase, will the finance company be responsible for registering the boat for you? Part 1 Registration is recommended and some finance companies insist on this, particularly if you are utilising a Marine Mortgage.
• Make sure you know exactly what will be included in the price of your second hand boat.
• Check that the price you are paying is fixed and understand when you are required to pay deposits and payments.
• Do you have a valid and recognised contract? Check with the BMF who provide examples of standard contracts.
• Check that the delivery date given is guaranteed.
• Will clear title be guaranteed and how can this be proved?
• Know when you become responsible for the boat so that you can commence the necessary insurance cover.
• Does the current owner have all the correct ownership documents available?
• Is there any outstanding finance on the boat? If so, ensure this is cleared before completion.

Cheers Steve(MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:03   #7
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captsteve53 View Post
As you say the three items are NOT part of a usual Pre Purchase Survey and normally specified as such in the report,

The problem with these items is both technical in nature and the requirement for specialist knowledge but also time related as most prospective owners although wanting a decisive report dont like the financial aspects of such inclusive action points,

I for one always ask prior to a Survey what specific area's if any would the client wish to include and present the cost for doing so, the acceptance form for the client to sign prior to the Survey should out line the area's not included as there are many others such as removal of fixed panels/fixed floor boards etc as again time consuming but comes with issues from the current owners as to removing things on there vessel and it's liability,

For a normal Pre Survey report i would ask for a sea trial (with the owners on board) and check the engine gauges/general starting and running condition/ full or near full power for 20 minutes etc .

Here's a few more tips regarding purchase of a used vessel:

• Make sure that when you put in an offer you indicate that it is subject to a Marine Survey and, if necessary, a sea trial.Dry Docking
• If using Marine Finance to make the purchase, will the finance company be responsible for registering the boat for you? Part 1 Registration is recommended and some finance companies insist on this, particularly if you are utilising a Marine Mortgage.
• Make sure you know exactly what will be included in the price of your second hand boat.
• Check that the price you are paying is fixed and understand when you are required to pay deposits and payments.
• Do you have a valid and recognised contract? Check with the BMF who provide examples of standard contracts.
• Check that the delivery date given is guaranteed.
• Will clear title be guaranteed and how can this be proved?
• Know when you become responsible for the boat so that you can commence the necessary insurance cover.
• Does the current owner have all the correct ownership documents available?
• Is there any outstanding finance on the boat? If so, ensure this is cleared before completion.

Cheers Steve(MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)
I don't understand. What 3 items you reference above are not part of a pre-purchase survey in your view? Your additional suggestions are all valid and helpful but normally addressed in conjunction with buyer's broker or attorney and/or documentation agent.
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:28   #8
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Catmancan2 - was referring to your items as

4 (Mast and Rigging is usually only done from deck level) all sorts of issues here with liabilities/risk factors/equipment failures)
5 (Thermal Imaging is a specialist area - any one can use it! but it takes real training to fully interpolate the imaging)
6 (Engine compression testing etc requires some dismantling of the sellers engine which in my time at least is met with a very negative reply), the only time i have been requested and approved by the owner (as a considerable extra charge i might add) to do this was on $100'000 Engines

Cheers Steve
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:40   #9
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Rob Eberle mentioned above is an excellent surveyor and is definitely a buyer's surveyor. I have used him and found him to excellent. He delivers a complete and comprehensive report in a timely fashion.
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:58   #10
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captsteve53 View Post
Catmancan2 - was referring to your items as

4 (Mast and Rigging is usually only done from deck level) all sorts of issues here with liabilities/risk factors/equipment failures)
5 (Thermal Imaging is a specialist area - any one can use it! but it takes real training to fully interpolate the imaging)
6 (Engine compression testing etc requires some dismantling of the sellers engine which in my time at least is met with a very negative reply), the only time i have been requested and approved by the owner (as a considerable extra charge i might add) to do this was on $100'000 Engines

Cheers Steve
A good US marine surveyor will go aloft and will be included in his standard rate for size of vessel. At the very least a hull surveyor should instruct his buyer to hire a knowledgeable rigger. Not inspecting the standing rigging from deck to masthead is NOT an option.

Some marine surveyors are marine engineers but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to learn how to read the color spectrum a thermal imaging camera displays.

In the US a reputable diesel mechanic charges approx $100/hr and estimate no more than 8 hours for complete engine survey including compression of cylinders via injectors for 2 engines plus sea trial. Yes, it's an additional +/- $800 but a lot cheaper than having to replace an engine after purchase!
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:54   #11
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

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Originally Posted by catmancan2 View Post
A good US marine surveyor will go aloft and will be included in his standard rate for size of vessel. At the very least a hull surveyor should instruct his buyer to hire a knowledgeable rigger. Not inspecting the standing rigging from deck to masthead is NOT an option.

Some marine surveyors are marine engineers but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to learn how to read the color spectrum a thermal imaging camera displays.

In the US a reputable diesel mechanic charges approx $100/hr and estimate no more than 8 hours for complete engine survey including compression of cylinders via injectors for 2 engines plus sea trial. Yes, it's an additional +/- $800 but a lot cheaper than having to replace an engine after purchase!
I dont know what really your point is! as i stated earlier I inform my clients up front what is covered and what is not in the standard ACCEPTANCE form at that point it can be discussed re further qualified options, I HAVE BEEN RIGGING YACHTS FOR 40 YEARS, but apart from stating that the rigging visibly look's ok (or taking the fancy thermal imaging camera or dye penetrate aloft) it only proves it wont fall over while sitting at the dock,

Nope you dont have to be a Rocket scientist but when you are giving written reports which when covered by P&I insurance costs you around $3K a year with no claims you better be correct and really know what you are doing, this is why we prefer to use experts both for the client and us)- now saying that I recently gained a certificate in this field (Was I a Rocket Scientist NO but it take's a full week to complete and $2000)so it's not just kicking tires either.

I dont know where the times regarding sea trials and engine works come from- but as I'm a NZ registered Marine Engineer 1, I believe I know what is required time wise for an expert analysis of engines and sea trials,

As a lot of yachties dont realize being a Surveyor in today's legal eagle world is not a cup of tea,- most think you just pay to be a member-well not so at least with the IIMS and certainly not with Lloyd's, as a full member of the International Institute of Marine Surveyors with a Lloyd's Maritime Certification I believe my 40 years in doing this places me in a position to offer qualified factual advice rather than just opinions,


Cheers Steve (MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:48   #12
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Re: Broker/surveyor needed in NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captsteve53 View Post
I dont know what really your point is! as i stated earlier I inform my clients up front what is covered and what is not in the standard ACCEPTANCE form at that point it can be discussed re further qualified options, I HAVE BEEN RIGGING YACHTS FOR 40 YEARS, but apart from stating that the rigging visibly look's ok (or taking the fancy thermal imaging camera or dye penetrate aloft) it only proves it wont fall over while sitting at the dock,

Nope you dont have to be a Rocket scientist but when you are giving written reports which when covered by P&I insurance costs you around $3K a year with no claims you better be correct and really know what you are doing, this is why we prefer to use experts both for the client and us)- now saying that I recently gained a certificate in this field (Was I a Rocket Scientist NO but it take's a full week to complete and $2000)so it's not just kicking tires either.

I dont know where the times regarding sea trials and engine works come from- but as I'm a NZ registered Marine Engineer 1, I believe I know what is required time wise for an expert analysis of engines and sea trials,

As a lot of yachties dont realize being a Surveyor in today's legal eagle world is not a cup of tea,- most think you just pay to be a member-well not so at least with the IIMS and certainly not with Lloyd's, as a full member of the International Institute of Marine Surveyors with a Lloyd's Maritime Certification I believe my 40 years in doing this places me in a position to offer qualified factual advice rather than just opinions,


Cheers Steve (MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)
I thought a surveyor was an expert?

And why I prefer a surveyor use a thermal camera (in addition to acoustic sounding and moisture meter) is for inspecting hull/deck for possible delamination since most production builders do a poor job of isolating the core from moisture migration or boat owners who think bedding compound is good for the life of the vessel.
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