Broker refuses to put sea trial as purchase condition

[Tang]

I'm sure There'll be other opportunities for another catamaran and with conditions you'll be more comfortable with.

[kbad]

Walk away do not "let the fear of missing out" dictate your purchase, what is being asked by the broker is unreasonable and will leave you with a big headache. If they believe the boat to be solid and good to go then why not agree to a sea trial. IMO they know there are issues and want to unload it on someone.

[Catalacmarc]

I hope the OP ran not walked away from this deal. Having been burned once and saved once, if I buy a boat I own it. I don't give it back to the seller for a play day across the pond or a major voyage across the POND. What happens when the seller runs over a fisherman on his way into the TransAtlantic destination and walks away?
Had what for us was a major money offer on a cat that was advertised as an accomplished ocean crosser, in excellent condition, no blisters. When survey day came the seller softened his tune to some blisters but repaired, when it was hauled out, the surveyor took one walk around and refused to continue the survey. Glass cross beams major cracked and the bottom was horribly poxed. The areas that had been "repaired" had part of the blistered area shaved down without replacing the removed glass. Got out right then and there with our earnest money intact.

If I wanted a cat in France that badly, I'd go over and if the guy refused sea trials or survey and I could not take possession at it's location, I would leave and enjoy some time in Paris.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by katamarankris

Sea trial post delivery is added to the contract now, and I bought the boat (paid a deposit). I still don’t love the contract language, but I’m choosing to trust the brokerage to some extent.

Thanks everyone for your input.

I’ll post an update in a few months about whether this worked out, or was the dumbest boat purchase in history.

Did NONE of you guys read the OP's post 69, quoted above?

It is a done deal, so all t he advice to "run, not walk" etc is kinda lame.

Makes a lot of you look foolish...

Jim

[Catalacmarc]

Seen this before, eight pages of posts and I missed that one and likely others. It's the curse of these formats specially if you are using less than optimal tech.

[kbad]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Did NONE of you guys read the OP's post 69, quoted above?

It is a done deal, so all t he advice to "run, not walk" etc is kinda lame.

Makes a lot of you look foolish...

Jim

Was commenting on original first post, doesn't change my opinion, hope it works out for the OP but I have my doubts.

[shiro1234]

Originally Posted by katamarankris

I'm currently trying to purchase a catamaran, located in France, which does not become available for handover for a few months.

It's going to be delivered to me in the Caribbean via sailing it across the Atlantic before the handover to me.

I am working with my local broker to help guide me through the purchase process with the foreign French broker.

I'm stuck on two things and was wondering if anyone has experienced this before:

1. The broker won't allow me to conduct a sea trial as a condition of purchase in the pre-purchase agreement.
   
2. The broker won't allow for 2 weeks that I requested to conduct survey and sea trial. He only wants to give me I think 4 days for a survey. And no sea trial. I'm not sure it's enough time for me to survey in the Caribbean because planning a surveyor to look at the boat there might have a delay.

I have given him my ID and proof of residence etc, and am ready to send a deposit, but he now seems offended and is threatening to sell the boat to another customer if I don't sign his agreement as given.

I haven't purchased a boat internationally before. It's a reasonably large (~15 employee?) La Rochelle broker.

Am I asking for unusual things from the selling broker?

Sounds very dodgy to me..have purchased a couple of vessels..Do Not purchase without either..
Let them sell it to someone else..this is very suspicious

[Sos]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Did NONE of you guys read the OP's post 69, quoted above?

It is a done deal, so all t he advice to "run, not walk" etc is kinda lame.

Makes a lot of you look foolish...

Jim

I think some people just like to answer a question rather than join in the "conversation"!

[goboatingnow]

It’s not complicated. The Op completes the sale in France or walk away. If he likes the boat then he should buy it and have a sea trial in France included then delivery then becomes his responsibility.

[Sos]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It’s not complicated. The Op completes the sale in France or walk away. If he likes the boat then he should buy it and have a sea trial in France included then delivery then becomes his responsibility.

It's really not complicated - he brought the boat - post 69!!

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Jeanvi

Contrary to most countries, brokers in France do not have an exclusive right to the boats they represent. Try to use the same search terms and see if you can find he same vessel represented by someone else. Another broker or even just the owner himself, as this is perfectly legal and even normal in France. I have had to deal with quite a few brokers in France in finding my ship (in fact two ships, plus more than 5 in my search for a boat), and most were just plain incompetent or even malicious. Or not a broker at all - anyone can call themselves a broker or representative. This is why French brokers are so keen to have you agree to their terms in writing: not so much to safeguard themselves against defaulting buyers, but against competing brokers who are peddling the same ship. And this is why he is putting you to such harsh terms: he must be able to show to the owner he scored a better deal for him than other brokers who represent the same ship. Usually you will find something hidden in the contract stating 'sale subject to owner agreement'. A giveaway, and not a territory where you will be comfortable without a thourough knowledge of legal French. Which I have, but of course in the end you have to give up. Oh well.
Secondly, if this is a French owned vesel it is probably in a state called franciscation, a strange procedure where the original french owner has had to hand in his proof of ownership to a French authority and received a specific document that proves ownership for french to french purchasers, but has no legal value when the ship is sold to a non french buyer. For such a sale to have legal status, the ship must be taken out of that specific status (called defrancisation )where you are in limbo for quite a few weeks, and where you are dependent on the goodwill of the owner you have never met. Only then you will be able to see whether or not VAT (sales tax) has been paid. And you can start this procedure of defrancification only after you have paid for the vessel in full. I finally bought my boat (a Lavezzi catamaran) by dealing directly with the owner and got everything sorted out. And finally: I would take great care in calling a broker reputable based on the number of employees they put on their website. Or pictures of their office. Or the number of locations they claim to have. Don't ask me how I know. Or rather: PM me first (full disclosure: I am not a broker, and I am not French).

Wow, what a horror show! Sort of makes you not want to buy a boat in France, huh?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dahveed

I know I’m late and I might have misunderstood the situation.

So you’re going to get them to deliver it and THEN you’re doing a survey and sea trial?

What if you walk on the deal? Then this broker has a boat in the Caribbean and he has to pay to get sailed back.

Do the survey and trial before in Europe. Then purchase the boat and have it delivered.

Good luck with the purchase.

I think people are missing...the seller is the one who wants to wait until it's in the Caribbean before closing the deal and has refused to finalize the deal in France.

So it's not the buyer is not the one pushing for it to be delievered.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No seller is going to deliver a boat across an ocean on the basis the sale could fail

The whole idea is nonsense. Buy the boat in France ( or don’t ) and deliver it yourself.

The OP said, he would prefer to buy in France but the seller is refusing as he wants to do a last crossing.

This is the seller being unreasonable if he is fighting the survey/sea trail after the crossing.

[boatman61]

Yup.. A French man who wants to do a one way trans-at with a guaranteed sale on arrival to recoup his costs..
A free lunch..

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yup.. A French man who wants to do a one way trans-at with a guaranteed sale on arrival to recoup his costs..
A free lunch..

......which he got. Per Post #69, sounds like OP now has only his deposit at-risk. I'm guessing this story has another chapter or two.....