Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2021, 17:40   #106
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,352
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Wow, 7 knots.
Is that what you call sailing hard?
7 kn passage averages is excellent for 40 footer in my books.

We do plan 3 capes but i need to do some extra work on boat for that.
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2021, 20:43   #107
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 4,653
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
7 kn passage averages is excellent for 40 footer in my books.
Sure, but it's not sailing hard

Plenty of fast cat cruisers sail pretty much pedal to the metal so to speak all the time
All bulkheads intact.
But they are well designed and built properly

Some use marine ply drum bulkheads with timber truss and beams internal and 8:1 scarfs minimum.
Others use duflex or foam sandwich bulkheads with massive unidirectional ringframes around the perimeter and all cutouts
Others use strip plank panels with localised unidirectional following load paths.
All supported by surrounding furniture
ALL are epoxy coved into the hull and furniture and fiberglassed in for additional strength.
Some even leave this workmanship exposed for all to admire.

None of them are made from what would seem to be packing crates held in with snot and then hidden behind a timber moulding
.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2021, 22:22   #108
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,352
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post

None of them are made from what would seem to be packing crates held in with snot and then hidden behind a timber moulding
.
sorry, above i do not get. english my 4th language.

i have no experience with boat building, and from all I have seen when yoga-ing thru boat looks to me pretty solid. Confirmation is there is no sign of give-up. No retensioning rigging required after 30k nm so that suggest to me engineering is adequate.

All bulkheads are glassed. More important ones have some stuff between bulkhead and hull - and then glassed over.

Main bulkhead is not entirely glassed - outside hull on both sides there is a patch of some green-ish glue only. On both sides. I doubt this is done to save cost as it is really small bit and easy accessible ahen no furniture. Bulkhead is glued on top from one side only + greenish stuff. My take was this is to keep boat more flexible and not cause structural fiberglass cracks in storm.
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 09:26   #109
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,331
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
I don't agree, in every bigger bay we meet Lagoons afloat in all ages, they seem not to disintegrate, I doubt any owner has done structural repairs on them yet. There would be a lot of fatal accidents if the structure is so poor, but they cross oceans in all conditions and survive.

There may be some boats with issues, that need to be addressed, but even 10 boats out of 1000 built are only 1%, and they would not even had noticed it without the hype. They still sail and float.


I believe Lagoon admits to 40 of the 450’s have reported this problem out of about 500, so far a 8% failure ratio.
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 15:10   #110
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 5,067
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Go to the Lagoon 450 f/s bulkhead issue Facebook page to view plenty of the 450’with this problem that haven’t encountered a hurricane.

I'm not on FB. What are the model years of the affected boats? Someone posted that they were only 2011 and 2012.
Thanks
__________________
Slowly going senile but enjoying the ride.
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 15:33   #111
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,331
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
I'm not on FB. What are the model years of the affected boats? Someone posted that they were only 2011 and 2012.
Thanks


From what I’ve seen on FB the newest model with slight distortion of the bulkheads is a 2017. Seems to get worse with age? And supposedly insurance companies are getting wind of this and are considering a no navigation clause. Some of the pictures are amazing.
Came across this on another forum and it’s supposed to be Lagoons reaction.

“To share with you a global view and understanding of the situation, we would like to remind you that since 2011, more than a thousand Lagoon 450 have been sailing all over the world, and that a large number among these are extensively sailing, many in successful charter use.
To date, around 40 cases of damaged forward bulkheads have been reported, mostly by owners directly. However, we would like to point out that a large number of boats inspected present no problems with their bulkheads, knowing that many of these boats have a history of intense sailing in all types of sea condition
....
Among the cases identified, we have discovered localized buckling or shearing on the outer side of the forward bulkhead (non-structural zones with respect to mast support). According to the Finite Element calculations (FEA) performed by our Design Office and analyzed in collaboration with the VPLP team of naval architects, we confirm that the scantling is sufficient under normal use of the boat.
The area is located in a stress concentration zone, designed to withstand normal stress, which could however create an imbalance if the boat was to be used in a manner that does not comply with the recommendations for use, as described in our User Manuals.”
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2021, 03:47   #112
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 726
Re: Broken Lagoon

Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk
olaf hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2021, 16:17   #113
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,075
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by olaf hart View Post
Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk
Thanks very much for posting this Leopard 44 video.
This production catamaran appears to be built quite differently!
cyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2021, 17:16   #114
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Boston
Boat: Farr 50 Pilothouse
Posts: 1,354
Re: Broken Lagoon

There are 143 listings for Lagoon 450's on yachtworld. I don't know if this is the normal amount of these that are up for sale at any given time, but it seems possible that people are trying to get out of them before problems develop or the issue becomes more widely known.
Muaddib1116 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2021, 19:55   #115
Registered User
 
CatNewBee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 3,755
Images: 3
Re: Broken Lagoon

Great time for buying...
__________________
Lagoon 400S2 refit for cruising: LiFeYPO4, solar and electric galley...
CatNewBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 05:02   #116
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 2,480
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muaddib1116 View Post
There are 143 listings for Lagoon 450's on yachtworld. I don't know if this is the normal amount of these that are up for sale at any given time, but it seems possible that people are trying to get out of them before problems develop or the issue becomes more widely known.


Probably too late now. Unless prospective buyers do no internet research…

Really unfortunate for current owners. Yes the market has set a price point and size expectation for these McMansion yachts- which relies on cost cutting measures. But, doubling the size of the bulkhead or something similar, as well as adding tabbing, to be strong enough would probably have added less than $3000 to each boat if done during the build so this is inexcusable…
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 06:19   #117
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Boston
Boat: Farr 50 Pilothouse
Posts: 1,354
Re: Broken Lagoon

Some of what is being revealed by Colin on Parlay is pretty incredible. Most of it is clearly not from the hurricane damage. You can tell that it is that way from the factory. The newest reveal of the encapsulated resin injection tube that caused huge voids under the tabbing is just sloppy and inexcusable. In most cases it seems like the bulkheads would have been strong enough, but the tabbing is so minimal and shoddily done.
Muaddib1116 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 07:12   #118
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 5,067
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyan View Post
Thanks very much for posting this Leopard 44 video.
This production catamaran appears to be built quite differently!
Is that the one where the front windows pop out of the frames?
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 17:10   #119
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,927
Re: Broken Lagoon

Both the 400 and the 450 have design flaws that lead to structural failure of bulkheads.
This is a fact that even Lagoon acknowledges but some fanboys seem to think that bulkheads are optional.

Are Lagoons trash? No! But they are not perfect, and some just have issues that need to be addressed - not ignored.
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 23:17   #120
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,352
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
Both the 400 and the 450 have design flaws that lead to structural failure of bulkheads.
This is a fact that even Lagoon acknowledges but some fanboys seem to think that bulkheads are optional.

Are Lagoons trash? No! But they are not perfect, and some just have issues that need to be addressed - not ignored.
AS we both know Lagoons excel at providing optimal value for combination of $, comfort and performance. I would say L 400 is really the pinnacle of that.

Lagoon 400 design issue lead to bulkhead damage if not caught early enough and fixed - make critical area dry. If caught early there is no damage to speak of.
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General Info: lagoon fridge/freezer broken doors fix how to ers61 Lagoon Catamarans 3 11-12-2019 20:35
Through Hull-Valve Broken or Not-Broken? Jado27 Monohull Sailboats 15 16-03-2016 06:14
Water use gauge on Lagoon 380 broken gspeak Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 1 02-12-2013 09:16

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.