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Old 20-07-2021, 09:27   #376
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Re: Broken Lagoon

[QUOTE=crayiii;3448303]
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Originally Posted by owly View Post
This is one reason engineering firms carry E&O insurance.

The last time I reviewed warranty terms, Lagoon and Leopard (didn't look at any other) didn't cover boats going into charter either.
That's likely to be a lot of boats.
E&O insurance Lagoon dont have this insurance. have insurance for helth worker,fire,flood,satellite drop on factory,health,life insurance worker job in transit, etc... Also again if dealer want 40% of boat price must take on self warranty . Everybody with broken bulkheads (except 2-owner and owner use boat for a commercial purposes) Call your dealer who sells you boat and arrange claim.

also this 40 mil€ for the worker go 3 guys go in retirement from board and reward 30 mil€ 10 mil€ for education and salary for 400 worker couple year. and i go in prison
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Old 20-07-2021, 09:29   #377
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Re: Broken Lagoon

[QUOTE=more;3448312]
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E&O insurance Lagoon dont have this insurance. have insurance for helth worker,fire,flood,satellite drop on factory,health,life insurance worker job in transit, etc... Also again if dealer want 40% of boat price must take on self warranty . Everybody with broken bulkheads (except 2-owner and owner use boat for a commercial purposes) Call your dealer who sells you boat and arrange claim.

also this 40 mil€ for the worker go 3 guys go in retirement from board and reward 30 mil€ 10 mil€ for education and salary for 400 worker couple year. and i go in prison
I'm not sure how you know that to be the case but I wasn't necessarily talking about Lagoon. The engineering firm that did the design could also have some skin in the game.
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Old 20-07-2021, 10:04   #378
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Re: Broken Lagoon

[QUOTE=owly;3448299]
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This is no surprise to me.......... about what I expected. Non business people seem to think that the huge amount of money paid for equals huge profit and piles of cash in the bank... nothing could be farther from the truth I suspect. Boatyards are going to charge a LOT to do this job properly, and as the number of boats needing (or wanting) repair grows, that capital of 3,5 milion€ would vanish pretty rapidly.........That capital is working capital..... Without it Lagoon cannot make volume purchases, etc driving production costs up....... if they were able to remain in business at all. A lawsuit that ended up requiring repair would bankrupt the company........ Perhaps someone else would purchase their designs and continue manufacturing Lagoons, but they would have no liability for previously built boats.
Their annual report shows much more cash instruments than that. Much more. It also states that they not only maintain liability insurance for themselves but they also have policies that cover their vendors.

I also saw a significant set aside for warranty coverage in th report.
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Old 20-07-2021, 10:13   #379
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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I surely hope most production boats don’t have bulkhead failures. We’ve owned 11 catamarans and none have had any form of bulkhead failure. The catamaran we own now has flipped once and flown a hull numerous times and no sign of any bulkhead failure or flexing.

That really isn't a worthwhile argument. Having owned 11 catamarans says that you don't keep them very long. So while they may not have had bulkhead failures, or any other issues while you owned them, doesn't mean that they wont develop issues with subsequent owners.
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Old 20-07-2021, 11:31   #380
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Leopard shareholders are smiling more these days…
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Old 20-07-2021, 12:32   #381
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Re: Broken Lagoon

[QUOTE=crayiii;3448333]
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Originally Posted by owly View Post

Their annual report shows much more cash instruments than that. Much more. It also states that they not only maintain liability insurance for themselves but they also have policies that cover their vendors.

I also saw a significant set aside for warranty coverage in th report.
you mean #product warranty obligation# this money don't exist.only in annual report is,becouse is law like this for boat sold in France. last year all groups have a little cash flow problem but bank cover this on paper have 15 mil€ profit but this money and more go to cover loan taken in 1990-2000
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:17   #382
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Re: Broken Lagoon

[QUOTE=more;3448445]
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you mean #product warranty obligation# this money don't exist.only in annual report is,becouse is law like this for boat sold in France. last year all groups have a little cash flow problem but bank cover this on paper have 15 mil€ profit but this money and more go to cover loan taken in 1990-2000
You seem to have a lot of insider information. Are you an employee? A large shareholder? An officer of the company?
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:22   #383
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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That really isn't a worthwhile argument. Having owned 11 catamarans says that you don't keep them very long. So while they may not have had bulkhead failures, or any other issues while you owned them, doesn't mean that they wont develop issues with subsequent owners.


That argument may hold true if the cats were new when we purchased but they ranged from 10-30+ years old when sold. We also keep up most of the new owners and no problems. We had absolutely no structural problems with any of the boats and am surprised when I hear that should be the norm.
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:35   #384
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Re: Broken Lagoon

[QUOTE=crayiii;3448470]
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You seem to have a lot of insider information. Are you an employee? A large shareholder? An officer of the company?
No Comment,i Not be an employer of any company 1 second always employer for other . No officer of the company. Other , No comment but All Beneteau group i now not fan with this group guy (long story) But Lagoon Cat from 2010-2021 is best Cat for Charter market
for live Lagoon 67. for 2,3 mil€ you receive a nice cheap house
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:45   #385
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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They should honor whatever warranty is in place for the boat and follow whatever law is required. Anything beyond that is "goodwill" and will be done to protect their reputation.



My hope would be that they pay to fix every 450 bulkhead and all related damage. The reality is they are a corporation that will do whatever makes sense for their shareholders.
Well...Colin has presented his conversations with Lagoon in some of his videos...they did not sound favorable.
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:50   #386
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
Straighten Your Bent Catamaran in 8 Simple Steps



David Shih: "it was so easy in my head..."



[emoji3]



This is from the other L450 on the hard next to Parlay.



Maybe Colin and Jamie need to setup a production line repair facility there at Linton Bay Marina



That could be done in Linton. Its already where many boats that go up on the reefs in the San Blas, and sustain massive structural damage (like hulls destroyed up to the water line), are haul to rebuild.
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:56   #387
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Well...Colin has presented his conversations with Lagoon in some of his videos...they did not sound favorable.
I don't believe they should pay to fix a salvage boat that insurance paid out on. That 450 should have been chopped up. I can't imagine it is much off a "deal" now.
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Old 20-07-2021, 15:00   #388
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Re: Broken Lagoon

[QUOTE=owly;3447683]
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Originally Posted by smj View Post




Obviously you haven't done the math... Let's be conservative, and say the repairs will run 30K per boat. If Lagoon had all 1000 boat repaired and paid for it, that would be 30M. They couldn't just to a select few... If I owned a 450, and found that Lagoon was beefing up bulkheads due to a design deficiency, I would NOT wait for my boat to fail, I would demand that it be repaired NOW. You'd be a fool not to get onboard. Can Lagoon absorb that kind of hit.......... where is all this money supposed to come from? Building cats is not a get rich quick scheme, but a very competitive business. The repair costs could easily exceed their overall profit margin per boat.... and that money has already been spent or paid out as dividends. Very few businesses have a steadily increasing pile of money, most run pretty close to the line.


Group Beneteau is large sophisticated company with something like 8,000 employees and 25 manufacturing locations and insurance and contractual relationships with outside firms to address these types of issues.

The following is the boat divisions 2019 sales numbers. They have a housing division as well, who knew?

Boat sales were up 4.6 percent to $1.26 billion (€1.14 billion), with net income down 5.8 percent to $76.45 million (€68.9 million). The group said in the statement that its Boat Division is “reporting good performance,” thanks to “robust development of sales” on its monohull and multihull sailboat brands, as well as outboard powerboats.
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Old 20-07-2021, 15:05   #389
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Hey Mods, why do I keep showing up as a poster on a quote when it wasn’t me that posted those words?
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Old 20-07-2021, 15:22   #390
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Hey Mods, why do I keep showing up as a poster on a quote when it wasn’t me that posted those words? Because I can edit a quote to say anything I want
see above
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