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Old 24-01-2021, 22:28   #1
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Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

Lets assume you want to be on a broad reach at night in higher windspeeds. (20-30knts true)

Main is down.

Don't want to run large Asymmetric at night / higher windspeeds / varying winds

Genoa unfurled is too much. Furled puts it too far forward of the cars to get a good sheeting angle

Self tacking staysail (Solent) has limited track length. Goes as wide as the salon, but not to edge of hulls.

Seems to me the best option is either headsail with a barber hauler to get the angle right.
Hence this post.

Barber hauler on the part furled genoa might work, but that's a lot of load on a stanchion base.
I'm considering installing some extra padeyes or a new track maybe quite a way forward.

Barber hauler on the staysail might work, but the self tacking sheet arrangement with the block on the sail makes things "interesting" - it's a big lump of metal floating around.

What do you do for a Broad Reach in the tradewinds at night? Most google hits are for mono's with whisker poles.
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Old 24-01-2021, 22:31   #2
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

Always use some main even a heavily reefed one, it provides structural support to the mast, and install some mid ships mooring cleats that can be used as an anchor point for a barber hauler.
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Old 24-01-2021, 23:12   #3
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

What are you sailing?

If you're talking 15,000 lbs monohull, at 20-30 in a broad reach, I'd opt for a double-reefed mainsail with a preventer just in case.
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Old 24-01-2021, 23:15   #4
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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What are you sailing?

If you're talking 15,000 lbs monohull, at 20-30 in a broad reach, I'd opt for a double-reefed mainsail with a preventer just in case.
Im guessing he is talking Multi of some sort given this is the multihull forum.
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Old 24-01-2021, 23:15   #5
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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Always use some main even a heavily reefed one, it provides structural support to the mast, and install some mid ships mooring cleats that can be used as an anchor point for a barber hauler.
This is the answer.
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Old 24-01-2021, 23:18   #6
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Im guessing he is talking Multi of some sort given this is the multihull forum.
Whoops. I'm new. Didn't notice that. Not a CF expert yet. Next time, I'll look.

Sorry. Hey, if you ever go over to monohulls, you have my answer.

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Old 24-01-2021, 23:37   #7
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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Originally Posted by LoudMusic View Post
This is the answer.
Kindof.
I prefer topping lift and mainsheet near centred for backstay support. Once boom is pulled out to near shrouds (std multi, no back stay) the mast support is much less. 2nd reef is below solent attachment point.

I am considering a padeye in line with trampolines. Existing docking cleats are in line with daggerboards / behind mast.

What do you do on your multi?
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Old 25-01-2021, 00:30   #8
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

On our Lagoon 450, we sailed a right angle from Abacos to BVI 700 miles East and then 400 Miles south approx. The southern section was 30 - 35kn+ ranging from broad reach to a beat. We had 3 reefs in the main, traveled out about 3 - 4 ft a smidgen of genoa, this seemed to help with steering. Would bring the traveller in as angles got tighter. We had current against or sideways to us and a real mish-mash of easterly wind waves and large northern swells I was crook and my wife sailed it rigged like this for 3 days and nights straight. No damage and no frights, the Painkiller at Jost Van Dyke was welcome as we arrived in a thunderstorm.
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Old 25-01-2021, 02:00   #9
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

For barber haul anchor, absolutely do not use stanchion bases. A cleat can be good, if itís got really secure backing plates (as the load will be vertical rather than in sheer that the cleat was designed for).

Otherwise, mount pad eyes. Use your existing jib leads to get an idea of the regular sheet loads, then double that if the barber hauler takes all the load for the added vertical component. If you will split the load between the barber haul and the jib then 100% load for the barber haul anchor SWL is fine.

For locating the barber haul block location, it should be located on the edge of the hull about half way between the jib lead and the bow. Further forward for downwind and not so far forward for reaching. Think of extending the radius of your existing jib (or genoa) sheet lead out to the rail for the reaching location.

We tie an extra sheet to the jib and lead it through a snatch block attached to our barber haul anchor (we use our toe rail). We transfer all the load from the regular jib sheet to the barber haul sheet.
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Old 25-01-2021, 03:22   #10
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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Originally Posted by nfbr View Post
Kindof.
I prefer topping lift and mainsheet near centred for backstay support. Once boom is pulled out to near shrouds (std multi, no back stay) the mast support is much less. 2nd reef is below solent attachment point.

I am considering a padeye in line with trampolines. Existing docking cleats are in line with daggerboards / behind mast.

What do you do on your multi?

With the boards up (no keels) you should be able to run with a reefed main, the CE is in front of CR that will be near the rudders, add a little jib for balance and speed control. Many Oz cats have small rudders, to clear bars, so this may not be appropriate in your case - Simpson / Crowther??



If you want to position the foresail clew forward run a fixed line from a bow cleat just long enough to allow the sail to furl and balance it with the sheet. Alternatively rig a snatch block on a bridle between a bow cleat and a midships cleat.
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Old 25-01-2021, 04:31   #11
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
With the boards up (no keels) you should be able to run with a reefed main, the CE is in front of CR that will be near the rudders, add a little jib for balance and speed control. Many Oz cats have small rudders, to clear bars, so this may not be appropriate in your case - Simpson / Crowther??



If you want to position the foresail clew forward run a fixed line from a bow cleat just long enough to allow the sail to furl and balance it with the sheet. Alternatively rig a snatch block on a bridle between a bow cleat and a midships cleat.
I don't like the main on the spreaders. Hence headsail.
Rudders are about 1.5M long - no worries re. centre of effort

As I relax the genoa sheet out the top luffs. Need to pull down.
Sounds like reinforcing the deck and a padeye or track is the go.
I might try the line forward - it may work to pull down.
Need to test that. Thanks
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Old 25-01-2021, 04:54   #12
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

Quote:
Originally Posted by nfbr View Post
Kindof.
I prefer topping lift and mainsheet near centred for backstay support. Once boom is pulled out to near shrouds (std multi, no back stay) the mast support is much less. 2nd reef is below solent attachment point.

I am considering a padeye in line with trampolines. Existing docking cleats are in line with daggerboards / behind mast.

What do you do on your multi?
You complain about an unbalanced boat but do not like the mainsail option...
The best answer in my (and other friends here) is - add (some) mainsail.
Reefed, if your genoa/jib is reefed. You will still be able to balance the mast through judicious use of the main sheet.
If the reefed mainsail is too large, it means that you need another reef point.
On our Lagoon400, there are three reefs on the mainsail. You may either add third one or move the second reef point to a higher place.
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Old 25-01-2021, 05:09   #13
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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You complain about an unbalanced boat but do not like the mainsail option...
The best answer in my (and other friends here) is - add (some) mainsail.
Reefed, if your genoa/jib is reefed. You will still be able to balance the mast through judicious use of the main sheet.
If the reefed mainsail is too large, it means that you need another reef point.
On our Lagoon400, there are three reefs on the mainsail. You may either add third one or move the second reef point to a higher place.
Balanced? I don't remember asking that.

Mainsail is on shrouds on broad reach. So prefer to put it away to avoid wear.

Reefed Genoa luffs up high as sheet doesn't pull down enough.
Your genoa doesn't flap when in a couple of feet?
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Old 25-01-2021, 05:47   #14
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Always use some main even a heavily reefed one, it provides structural support to the mast, and install some mid ships mooring cleats that can be used as an anchor point for a barber hauler.
Yes! I've never understood this trend of using only one sail on a sloop. I remember reaching (more beam reaching) offshore from the Caribbean up towards the end of Long Island in 45 knots of breeze.

We were flying. The boat loved it. (Big heavy custom Little Harbour 55'). It seemed all the stars in the Universe were out that night.

Best night watch I ever stood. I can still recall the exhilaration.

Proper sail trim and balancing a boat's sail plan is essential. So yes. Reefed main up with a properly set barber-hauler (which keeps the sail off your shrouds).

+1

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Old 25-01-2021, 06:10   #15
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Re: Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

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Originally Posted by nfbr View Post
Balanced? I don't remember asking that.

Mainsail is on shrouds on broad reach. So prefer to put it away to avoid wear.

Reefed Genoa luffs up high as sheet doesn't pull down enough.
Your genoa doesn't flap when in a couple of feet?
If mainsail goes to close to the shrouds, you may bring the traveller back some way towards middle of the boat, until the sail is free of chafe. It should be easier with smaller (reefed) sail.
Of course each boat is different, but you should be able to find the sweet spot.
As to the genoa, you have offered the solution yorself - outhauler (Barber) will do the job if the genoa traveller does not work.
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