Broad Reach in higher windspeeds / at night

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Balanced? I don't remember asking that.



Mainsail is on shrouds on broad reach. So prefer to put it away to avoid wear.



Reefed Genoa luffs up high as sheet doesn't pull down enough.

Your genoa doesn't flap when in a couple of feet?

I’m with you as I also prefer to only use a jib or spinnaker when going downwind. Asymmetrics are cheap on eBay, and my main is expensive. I’d rather keep it out of the sun when it’s not really doing much anyway.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Lets assume you want to be on a broad reach at night in higher windspeeds. (20-30knts true)

In those conditions and offshore we would have two reefs in the main, one reef in the jib. Main flattened with traveler and preventer/downhaul to minimize but not eliminate shroud contact, one runner cinched tight and the other slack. Jib barberhauled to the lee hull. We wouldn't fly the spin with true winds approaching 30kts.


Cheers,

[Rigamarole]

Well, IMO 20 to 30 knots isn't too much wind, even at night. My manufacturer recommendations for that wind speed an a broadreach is at most 3rd reef and 1/3 jib. Their sail to wind guide is conservative (so am I). For sure I'd have at least a triple reef in the main and then trim for stress and speed. With a triple, you can release your main sheet and traveler a long way, until the main is just short from touching the shroud. With this setup I would sail to 40 steady and 50 in gusts. Above 40 and you need to look at what is getting stressed and if its too much.

[captmikem]

I was broad reaching down the west coast of the North Island of NZ in 35kts one night. had a double reef in the main and the 130 on the pole. I think I had a bit of it rolled in. It was a great ride, sea got up pretty good and we were surfing occasionally, rudder would start to sing and you could feel it in the wheel. Boat was well balanced. She was a cutter rig but I never thought about getting rid of the headsail and going to the staysail as she was just so easy to handle. The big headsail pulling the bow was just right.

M

[guyrj33]

The load on a barber hauler is much less than the load on the sheet it is tweaking.

[HBrew]

If I were sailing my cat on a broad reach with 30kn, presumably gusting 40kn then I would do the following
Mainsail 3rd reef
Solent full or partially furled depending on sea state - my solent is not a big sail
Leeward board up, windward half way down
In those conditions my boat will rock along at 15knots nicely, if it gets uncomfortable then ai would increase the roach and let some wind spill

[Paul Howard]

I fasten snatch blocks on short line to the mid-ships cleats on my fractional rigged cat, with the line length adjusted to get the correct sheeting angle for the genoa whether fully out or slightly rolled in. That has worked for many days/nights at sea in the trade winds.

[jmschmidt]

Sounds like the makings of crash jib to me. At night you may not have sufficient vision to read the oncoming waves and make last minute steering corrections. With a cat you are definitely walking a tight rope.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Sounds like the makings of crash jib to me. At night you may not have sufficient vision to read the oncoming waves and make last minute steering corrections. With a cat you are definitely walking a tight rope.

Have you sailed a cat? Unlike a monohull, crash gybes are pretty much unknown of cats, due to long relatively narrow hulls, dual rudders, and lack of heeling. Cats go downwind or deep reaching, even in big waves, like they’re on rails.

[BillKny]

If you have swept back spreaders, you WILL be sailing with the main on them or you are just gelding your stallion. Even boats with straight spreaders sail with the main out enough to touch.

The key is to vang down the boom so it isn't pumping up and down. If the sail is not moving on the spreaders, chafe is minimal. To avoid it even more add some proper chafe patches to the sail where it touches the spreaders and then sail the boat the way it SHOULD be sailed.

[LoudMusic]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Kindof.
I prefer topping lift and mainsheet near centred for backstay support. Once boom is pulled out to near shrouds (std multi, no back stay) the mast support is much less. 2nd reef is below solent attachment point.

I am considering a padeye in line with trampolines. Existing docking cleats are in line with daggerboards / behind mast.

What do you do on your multi?

2 reefs in the main and 2 or 3 dots of jib during the day.

3 reefs in the main and 1 or 2 dots of jib during the night.

20 to 30 kts of true is a lot of breeze, but the boats are designed to handle it, if your gear is maintained. The FP Orana has single large cable shrouds aft of the mast and no backstay. I have confidence in the rig for the conditions you are referencing and the trim I have specified.

BUT, if you're not comfortable with it, don't do it! The absolute worst situation to put yourself in is making yourself uncomfortable. Bad decisions will follow, you won't enjoy it, and you won't go back.

[Snore]

Add my vote to adding a hard point. I would never ever Barber haul to a stanchion. They are not intended for that strain

If it is blowing that hard- a centered traveler, with a hardened main sheet pulling on the topping lift will take the forward strain of the jib.

As I recall most cat manufacturers call for a fully stowed main and a tissue of jib when things get extreme.

[S D Sailor]

Last February (2020): aboard 2011 38' Leopard sailing two overnights north-bound from Las Perlas Islands in the Pacific to Cohiba Islands (Jicarita) off northern Panama/Costa Rica border; 20-25 kts, starboard beam-reach (8' swells). We tried double-reefed main and Genoa furled, but, as previously mentioned, easier on the auto-pilot/helm/watch-stander with deep-reefed Genoa, also (we only have two reef-points on the main & appreciate the suggestion for a third).....cloudless/moonless star-filled night....exhilirating is a good word for it....did I mention dolphins leading the way repeatedly throughout....? :-)

[arsenelupiga]

i also believe mainsail needs to be up. Once tried without and in 40 kn an reaching did not like jib working alone so i had to help with engine and make jib work less by adding extra couple furls.

So that how we do it

Setup downhaul on main
shroud protection on mainsail so sail can rest on shrouds
low breakage strength rope for barber hauler to provide fuse capabilities so no deck fitting damage.

Concept is get max speed with minimum sail. Less sail easier will be to handle that squall in 50-ies or more. So good trim is important.

We would use second reef in main and jib. That would do for up to 45 kn true.

Much more wind, would use downhaul to drop main without turning into waves and adjust jib accordingly.

[Rigamarole]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Have you sailed a cat? Unlike a monohull, crash gybes are pretty much unknown of cats, due to long relatively narrow hulls, dual rudders, and lack of heeling. Cats go downwind or deep reaching, even in big waves, like they’re on rails.

I totally agree. Only if your autopilot failed and no one was at the helm.

Originally Posted by BillKny

If you have swept back spreaders, you WILL be sailing with the main on them or you are just gelding your stallion. Even boats with straight spreaders sail with the main out enough to touch.

The key is to vang down the boom so it isn't pumping up and down. If the sail is not moving on the spreaders, chafe is minimal. To avoid it even more add some proper chafe patches to the sail where it touches the spreaders and then sail the boat the way it SHOULD be sailed.

WILL? This I totally disagree with. My main sail is now 5 years old and there are only the slightest of black marks from the plastic shroud cover on them. The sail would have to work even past the shrouds to get to the spreaders. Essentially we never allow the sail to contact the shroud and boy, I really feel we sail the boat the way is should be.