Bridle with combination rope/chain rode?

[Chotu]

I have a combination rope and chain anchor rode. The rope is dpliced to the chain.

Every pound counts.

Previously, I just used the chain portion which is 150ft. I put a bridle and chain hook on. I have another 150ft of rope rode.

on a recent monohull,I switched from chain hooks to tying that whatever. Rolling hitch? Whatever it is. The thing you tie to the chain from a snubber on a monohull to the chain. Soft chain hook knot.

I am wondering how to tie to both. And if that knot is something decent to use with a bridle on a catamaran.

so I would be tying that knot to the chain. I know that’s going to work. The chain is bumpy enough. But can I tie that not to the rope part of the rode?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Chotu

...so I would be tying that knot to the chain. I know that’s going to work. The chain is bumpy enough. But can I tie that not to the rope part of the rode?

Yes, a rolling hitch will 'hitch' to anything you can get it around, but friction does matter. If the rope rode is slippery, or small, the hitch will have a harder time staying in place. But with the appropriate line, both as the rode, and as the tying line, it can still work. You might want to add a few extra rolls on the rolling hitch, and of course, you have to keep it under tension.

Those wiser than me prefer a prusik knot over a rolling hitch. I've never tried it because the rolling hitch has never slipped (to my knowledge). The prusik looks more difficult to manage, at least on my boat, but I've never tried it, so take that observation for what it's worth.

[thinwater]

In fact, a rolling hitch will slip on chain at high load. Lab and field testing. So unless you anchored in a real storm, perhaps you don't know. https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...p-anchor-chain


On rope, take your pick. I like the Prusik hitch for ease and proven reliability (I've probably used it 1000 times for many things, including fall protection and anchoring, chain and rope). If you want very high load, use two in series. Most of these gripper hitches will hold about 1/3 the breaking strength of the line, but it depends on the materials (don't use straight Dyneema). https://www.animatedknots.com/slide-grip-knots

[Chotu]

I can’t find the exact knot I was using. It was some kind of modified rolling hitch. Mike, I think I may have learned it from you actually. But it held fine through a category one hurricane.

what I’m asking is if this same knot will hold as well to my rope rode as it did to a chain rode.

I use three-quarter inch three strand rope for the rode.

i’m assuming the bridal has to be made of something different however. It won’t tie very well made out of the same stuff. But I want it to be just as strong.

[rslifkin]

As others have said, a Prusik is the easy answer that'll work on either the rope or chain portion of the rode.

[ItDepends]

Yes, a rolling hitch will work fine with rope rode. To work best the knot should be tied with line no bigger than the rode.

If things are really slippery (very unlikely in an anchor rode) for a bit of extra effort you can step up to a camel hitch, and if that gives you trouble an icicle hitch will hold, although that’s much more of a pain to tie.

Prussic is fine, but needs an extra piece, pick your poison.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I can’t find the exact knot I was using. It was some kind of modified rolling hitch. Mike, I think I may have learned it from you actually. But it held fine through a category one hurricane.

what I’m asking is if this same knot will hold as well to my rope rode as it did to a chain rode.

I use three-quarter inch three strand rope for the rode.

i’m assuming the bridal has to be made of something different however. It won’t tie very well made out of the same stuff. But I want it to be just as strong.

As I say, I've never seen my rolling hitches slip, and I've weathered some nasty storms (yes, storms) on them. Never a hurricane though. However, I do respect the opinion of those who say they can slip. If you can tie a prusik, it seems to be the more certain choice.

To your question, one can't know for sure if a rolling hitch will hold as well on your line vs chain. They certainly can hold if tied appropriately, but I suspect they may be more likely to slip. The odds of this happening is, I can't say. I only ever tie to my chain.

You will want to use a stretchier, likely slightly smaller, line for your bridle, regardless of the knot you use. This assumes you're using the bridle as a snubber, in addition to simply balance the forces off the bows.

[Chotu]

Looking at all of these various things I think it was the icicle hitch that I was using.

for certainty, I guess I will just go with the Prussik

Any suggestions for the bridal? I want it to be able to take the full load the anchor rode can take. I don’t want it to be something that breaks first before the anchor rode.

But it should be stretchy as mentioned above.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I can’t find the exact knot I was using. It was some kind of modified rolling hitch. Mike, I think I may have learned it from you actually. But it held fine through a category one hurricane.

what I’m asking is if this same knot will hold as well to my rope rode as it did to a chain rode.

I use three-quarter inch three strand rope for the rode.

i’m assuming the bridal has to be made of something different however. It won’t tie very well made out of the same stuff. But I want it to be just as strong.

A camel hitch is a rolling hitch with the last turn reversed. It holds MUCH better on chain and may be what you used.


The fault of the rolling hitch on chain has something to do with how the links shift under the knot, and can be specific to the rope size and the chain used. It actually does better on rope.

A Dyneema/polyester blend will have the right combination of friction and strength. That is what climbers use for Pruisks. Only the tippet of the bridle needs to be different. I use Pruisik loops and attach them with carabiners.

No, rope is different. A rolling hitch works on rope too, but not as well.


---


Hint. You will never see a climber or rescue personnel take his life on a rolling hitch or camel hitch. Just sayin'.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

... I want it to be able to take the full load the anchor rode can take. I don’t want it to be something that breaks first before the anchor rode.

But it should be stretchy as mentioned above.

You realize, of course, that these two are mutually exclusive. A stretchy bridle can be strong enough to last a few storms, including a huricane, but it is a wear item and should be replace after such a test. It will not have the same working load limit as the chain, since it would have to be twice as strong as the chain and practically non-stretch. The rope portion of your rode does not have the same WLL as the chain. BS, probably, WLL no.

[SV Confianza]

If we are not expecting a storm, we simply put an 8 knot in the middle of the anchor rode (line) to make a loop and hook the bridle onto the loop with a soft shackle.

We have had it tied like that in a few storms as well, which was not intended, but has never failed.

Reading this thread I feel like we should discontinue this practice...

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by BistroMath

If we are not expecting a storm, we simply put an 8 knot in the middle of the anchor rode (line) to make a loop and hook the bridle onto the loop with a soft shackle.

We have had it tied like that in a few storms as well, which was not intended, but has never failed.

Reading this thread I feel like we should discontinue this practice...

I did that on my Stiletto 27.


The knot will weaken the rope ~ 30%, and it can be a bugger to get out if it blows.

[motion30]

When using a rope rode, do you really need a snubber?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by motion30

When using a rope rode, do you really need a snubber?

Most of the responders have multihulls. They do not need a snubber with a rope rode, but ...

• Multihulls still need bridles to avoid yawing. In fact, the bridle on my trimaran (rope rode) is Dyneema. The bridle on my cruising cat (chain rode) was nylon.
• Some monohull sailors still like a snubber, because it takes the wear off the rode where it lies on the rollers. The snubber is short, cheap, and often polyester for better wear. Some old bit of recycled rope.