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Old 29-03-2020, 04:34   #1
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Blue Water Cats?

I am an experience mono-hull sailor exploring the thought of purchasing a cat. But I would want one built to sail in blue water. While in theory any boat can cross an ocean, I would not be interested in the catamaran version of a the quality of a Beneteau, Jenneau or Hunter mono-hull. I'd be buying a used boat, if I were to go forward, in the under 40 foot range.

Thank you for your in put.
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Old 29-03-2020, 05:20   #2
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

No cat has the ultimate stability of a monohull. Pleanty of monohulls can (have) done 360 degree rolls. Lost their rig, of course, but the white side ended up. A cat (ultimately) floats as well upside down as right side up. That means you definition of "blue water" needs attention. So does that definition in "under 40 feet." There is not an under forty foot catamaran that has the ultimate stability of a forty foot monohull with a lead keel.

So, how much of a compromise are you willing to make in order to get the advantages of a cat (space, speed, stability, weight of rig)? Keep her out of hurricanes? Conditions that might challenge ultimate stability? You'll have to decide for yourself.

If I was to return to sailing I'd look for the cat you describe (under 40 feet), but I'd stay within a day or two of a port, watch the weather, and stay out of thrunderstorm fronts that may have 100 knot winds unless the sails were furled. That said, there are plenty of trans-oceanic cat skippers on this forum.

I hope you find your dream boat.
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Old 29-03-2020, 05:22   #3
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

Don't rule out a trimaran!
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Old 29-03-2020, 05:34   #4
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

Find one that can't trip over appendages in ultimate survival storm situations.

Dagger boards and rudders you can pull up.

The beauty of that requirement is it's also a better cat overall to sail.
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Old 29-03-2020, 05:44   #5
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
No cat has the ultimate stability of a monohull. Pleanty of monohulls can (have) done 360 degree rolls. Lost their rig, of course, but the white side ended up. A cat (ultimately) floats as well upside down as right side up. That means you definition of "blue water" needs attention. So does that definition in "under 40 feet." There is not an under forty foot catamaran that has the ultimate stability of a forty foot monohull with a lead keel.

So, how much of a compromise are you willing to make in order to get the advantages of a cat (space, speed, stability, weight of rig)? Keep her out of hurricanes? Conditions that might challenge ultimate stability? You'll have to decide for yourself.

If I was to return to sailing I'd look for the cat you describe (under 40 feet), but I'd stay within a day or two of a port, watch the weather, and stay out of thrunderstorm fronts that may have 100 knot winds unless the sails were furled. That said, there are plenty of trans-oceanic cat skippers on this forum.

I hope you find your dream boat.
Thank you for your response. I understand all of the short comings of a cat in big weather vs. a monohull. When I say "blue water" I am referring to the quality of construction. E.g in a mono-hull there is a difference between a Swan and a Beneteau. As to my interest in a cat that is under 40 feet, I don't need the space or the expense of anything larger. It is not related to seaworthiness.
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Old 29-03-2020, 05:46   #6
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

Hello, A cats ability to sail safely in blue water has much or more to with the skipper and crew, weather routing and planning, then it does the vessel.
With monos and all that lead below, There's alot of cheaply made ones whose hulls cannot handle the stresses of offshore rough passage making without opening up , losing rudder, etc,
Cats are a different animal altogether. They are far more stable, faster and ride up and over the waves rather then bash thru them.
Some cats have higher bridge deck clearance and that can lead to a more comfortable ride, this is not to say a low bridge deck cat is not safe offshore.
As for size, its important to find a cat that is designed and balanced properly and has adequate load carrying capacity and buoyancy. Example , many 40s and 42s are nearly same size, layout and volume as their 36, 38' predecessors, but designers realized the hulls needed to be longer to handle a load and provide better performance
This isn't as important if you don't need tons of gear and live "light" and there are alot of 38' cats crossing oceans.
As for comfort offshore , we crossed the Atlantic from west to east and at one point we were in the company of 53 Amel monohull for a few days and that boat rolled and pitched so badly I was almost sea sick watching it. We were on a 42 ' heavy but comfortable cat, broad reaching, 8-12' swells and life was great.
look for a cat with glassed, bulkheads, easy sensible line setup, protected helm area, easy to work on systems, and engines,
And most importantly one that has been maintained..
And ignore all the negative comments your going to get regarding cats many have zero clue what a cat is like offshore in the nasty.
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Old 29-03-2020, 05:53   #7
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

Privilege 395 would be my choice given your parameters.

https://www.multihulls-world.com/rev...ilege-395-test
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Old 29-03-2020, 06:16   #8
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

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Originally Posted by Roniszoro View Post
Thank you for your response. I understand all of the short comings of a cat in big weather vs. a monohull. When I say "blue water" I am referring to the quality of construction. E.g in a mono-hull there is a difference between a Swan and a Beneteau. As to my interest in a cat that is under 40 feet, I don't need the space or the expense of anything larger. It is not related to seaworthiness.
Something else to think about is what the definition of the quality of construction even means.

On a big, heavy Monohull, the beefier and heavier the better.

On a Catamaran that's well built it's the opposite. You want very strong, stiff and lightweight. You want an engineered boat that keeps the weight off, thus reducing the loads on the entire structure.

This can be mistaken for non seaworthy construction but in fact, it's quite the opposite.

My cat went through the eye of 2 different hurricanes. Docks and moorings broke loose. Boats smashed through bridges. They all piled up in a corner at a travel lift and smashed together in the waves against a seawall. A few of the boats sunk. All of them had holes in the topsides. Mine? Some serious gouges and crushed spots on the bows. Absolutely no structural damage because the momentum it carries is next to nothing (due to being lightweight), reducing the energy transmitted to the hull in a dire situation. It's the same at sea.

As a weird thought experiment, picture taking a wooden ball and throwing it at a brick wall as hard as you can. Now picture throwing a styrofoam ball from a craft store just as hard at the Wall.

The wooden ball will hit with significantly more energy. It will definitely chip and will most likely split. The "weak" but lightweight styrofoam ball will never split but will dent a bit.

A seaworthy cat will be a lot the same.

And have retractable appendages to prevent it from tripping over keels and rudders which avoids capsize.
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Old 29-03-2020, 07:06   #9
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

The following will determine your path:


1. Do you want dagger boards for better pointing than fin keels?, if so your choices are cut by 90%
2 Do not want sail drives ? - that will cut 90% off the remaining 10%
This will really narrow down your choices very quickly.
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Old 29-03-2020, 07:06   #10
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

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And have retractable appendages to prevent it from tripping over keels and rudders which avoids capsize.
Totally agree. A cat even a small cat with the boards and rudders up and the sails down is just a raft. Ever tried turning a raft over? The worst that can happen is it will break up, so light and strong is the way to go, no lead of teak.
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Old 29-03-2020, 07:58   #11
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

New or used? Budget? These questions have a huge impact on any suggestions.

I'm biased (of course) but I'd look at something like the Gerard Danson Outremer 45. No core bellow the sheer, boards. A performance boat in her time and still a decent boat. The compromise (and the reason to up your length to 45), you'll find her quite small inside if you've been aboard any new cats.

Our 50 has been around about 1 1/2 times, has seen some nasty weather, and we've never felt fearful of the boat taking it. That, in weather where we weren't sure we could take it, psychologically.

That's only one example of a boat I'd consider, but I can tell you from our experience in anchorages with other cruisers, our drive for performance, and acceptance of the conditions it places on accommodations is a bit outside the mainstream.
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Old 29-03-2020, 08:18   #12
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
New or used? Budget? These questions have a huge impact on any suggestions.

I'm biased (of course) but I'd look at something like the Gerard Danson Outremer 45. No core bellow the sheer, boards. A performance boat in her time and still a decent boat. The compromise (and the reason to up your length to 45), you'll find her quite small inside if you've been aboard any new cats.

Our 50 has been around about 1 1/2 times, has seen some nasty weather, and we've never felt fearful of the boat taking it. That, in weather where we weren't sure we could take it, psychologically.

That's only one example of a boat I'd consider, but I can tell you from our experience in anchorages with other cruisers, our drive for performance, and acceptance of the conditions it places on accommodations is a bit outside the mainstream.
My budget would be likely $120K - $150K. If I decide to go forward, I would not want a boat 40 feet or bigger. Something in the mid 30 foot range would be fine for me.
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Old 29-03-2020, 08:47   #13
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

I think you might have to accept some trade offs with your budget mainly keels, saildrives, and standard rudders.

They built about 900 Lagoon 380s. There are some at your price point. Many have done major crossings.

There is a Simpson 40 refurbished that looks decent.
Look at FP Athenas also.
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Old 29-03-2020, 08:57   #14
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Re: Blue Water Cats?

Not always easy to find but I would look for a Seawind 1000xl or later. The three foot sugar scoop was a huge upgrade from the 1000. Twin outboards in wells amidship are easy and cheap to service. Get a composting head and no through hulls. Sails at around 2/3s wind speed except hard to weather. Something like a PDQ or Maincat are other choices. Not saying these are top choices; just that they are the ones that match your price point; or are close.
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Old 29-03-2020, 09:07   #15
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Within your budget I would suggest an owners version L380.. to my mind the best model they have made.
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