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Old 27-08-2019, 05:44   #106
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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Originally Posted by Go Wildcats View Post
Outside of the Lagoon 450, SA/D and that speed calculation appear to keep the same order. All theoretical...


So according to this, A leopard 43 can easily outsail a Outremer 45 in standard trim or loaded???? Impressive
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Old 27-08-2019, 06:11   #107
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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So according to this, A leopard 43 can easily outsail a Outremer 45 in standard trim or loaded???? Impressive
Next you’ll be telling us the Bali 5.4 can indeed do 20+kts, and that a number of (Bali employed) delivery skips can confirm this!😂😂😂

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Old 27-08-2019, 06:12   #108
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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So according to this, A leopard 43 can easily outsail a Outremer 45 in standard trim or loaded???? Impressive



Not in this lifetime!


On another note, I saw a hint that somebody had pricing on the first Excess cats. According to Bluenose, the pricing is due out in September; anybody know differently?
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Old 27-08-2019, 06:32   #109
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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So according to this, A leopard 43 can easily outsail a Outremer 45 in standard trim or loaded???? Impressive

I assume that is for the new O45. I wonder how the old one rates?
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Old 27-08-2019, 06:35   #110
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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Not in this lifetime!


On another note, I saw a hint that somebody had pricing on the first Excess cats. According to Bluenose, the pricing is due out in September; anybody know differently?
Got today an advertizing e-mail from the sales rep in Germany, prises are fixed now, they also fixed a 5% addition for cats produced in 2021, few sllots for 2020 available.
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Old 27-08-2019, 06:47   #111
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

Save the length and dagger boards, they are remarkably similar in spec's. I doubt they point similarly (or even close), but the sail speeds at 10Kts wind checks out for the Leopard based on owners comments. I'd prefer if there were people that could test sail boats and give details like they do for automobiles. Instead we get fluff from reviews without detailed sailing performance and conditions. All we have left are biased reviews and unbiased data to calculate metrics. They both fall short in telling reality.





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Not in this lifetime!


On another note, I saw a hint that somebody had pricing on the first Excess cats. According to Bluenose, the pricing is due out in September; anybody know differently?
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Old 27-08-2019, 06:58   #112
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched



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Next you’ll be telling us the Bali 5.4 can indeed do 20+kts, and that a number of (Bali employed) delivery skips can confirm this!😂😂😂

N
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Old 27-08-2019, 14:20   #113
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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I assume that is for the new O45. I wonder how the old one rates?

Sailboat Data says the old Outremer 45 has a 33.59 SA/D
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/outremer-45


Sail magazine gives the new one a 27 SA/D which is pretty close to the posted specs here.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/b...ew-outremer-45
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Old 27-08-2019, 19:31   #114
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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Sailboat Data says the old Outremer 45 has a 33.59 SA/D
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/outremer-45


Sail magazine gives the new one a 27 SA/D which is pretty close to the posted specs here.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/b...ew-outremer-45
sailboatdata has the wrong displacement.
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Old 27-08-2019, 19:34   #115
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

I've found looking at the ARC, their rating system the TCF, and the actual finish times worthwhile. It may be the largest database, albeit still small, of how cruising cats perform crossing oceans.
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Old 27-08-2019, 20:03   #116
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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sailboatdata has the wrong displacement.

What is the right displacement? Remember, this is for the old series which ended production in 2009. They were rocket ships. Still are.
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Old 27-08-2019, 20:04   #117
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

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I've found looking at the ARC, their rating system the TCF, and the actual finish times worthwhile. It may be the largest database, albeit still small, of how cruising cats perform crossing oceans.

ARC is NOT a good sign of how individual boats actually perform because its predominantly downwind and light, some boats get loaded with professional crews and sails and have stripped fit out to skew their performance, and motoring is allowed. Rafts could do as well in the ARC.

Most boats look relatively good and perform well downwind in moderate winds and waves as they can fly large spinnakers that dwarf their white sails area that feeds into SA/D. Slab sides and wide waterlines don’t harm downwind performance in moderate winds/waves, and if the wind drops they’ll motor, which masks their poorer light air performance.

If the wind/waves rise then a professional or aggressive crew can push a heavier and fatter boat to average speeds as fast as a higher performance boat that is not being pushed as hard. No way to tell just by looking at the results.

And regardless of the predominantly downwind nature of a coconut circumnavigation, there are areas where you need to reach or go upwind. How often do you see YT videos of boats titled ‘Worst passage ever’ describing their passage to or from NZ or South Africa. When you look at their boat, no wonder their passage sucked - their boat design is not optimised for sailing.

Regarding the oft-quoted ‘gentlemen don’t go to windward’, on a well-designed sailboat going to windward is just fine in all sailing conditions (excluding storms of course). I can’t even imagine the kind of conditions that we’d have to experience to need to heave to so as to rest and/or cook, while less performance-oriented boats report doing that as a common rougher weather tactic.
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Old 27-08-2019, 20:19   #118
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

Actually, I think the ARC is a pretty good comparison of real boats with real crews. Clearly some boats have better sails and better crews but I think the Lagoons did pretty poorly last year. Their average speed was low. Let’s just rest the idea that the average cruising cat is faster than a similarly sized mono, it is not and most likely slower. The Catanas and Outremers are different - I envy them.
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Old 27-08-2019, 20:31   #119
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

For the reasons stated the arc is actually a very good indicator. Most cruising do sail downwind. Most run motors, and the ARC adjusts for it. In the cruising classes virtually no one strips there boat out. While not nearly perfect I can’t think of a better way to compare cruising boats than a cruising rally.
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Old 30-08-2019, 20:11   #120
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Re: Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

Damn, I knew my 380 performed well, glad to see the chart confirm this.
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