Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

[cyan]

Originally Posted by fxykty

And let’s stop with the sexism - how about happy husband happy life? I spend just as much time at the galley as my wife.

Who spends more time at the BBQ?

[Zzmeyer]

[QUOTE=mikedefieslife;2947637]Many Broadblues are galley down, and in the newer ones you get a choice.

So what you are saying, I surmise, is that galley up or galley down is a choice rather than a determinant of boat speed? Sure glad I didn't spend a lot of money moving my galley and instead popped for a couple laminate sails.

[Gin-N-Sonic]

I think it is safe to say that galley wise, it's up to personal choice.

Regarding Happy Hubbies, well, I totally agree but then again, one side of me says "You'd have to be one serious needy SOB to put yourself on a cruising cat and be miserable".

Back to the Excess, not a huge fan of where the helm station is, the name, regardless of logo, meh, may imply that you would have to be that extra special crazy for one. They do call it a "Sport Catamaran" so the true judges will be the faster cat cruisers or liveaboards on here.

The only thing I am trying to figure out is this, the Bimini on the 15 is tapered at the rear, would it not make sense to lend some usable shade with such a helm setup?

[Zzmeyer]

I'm not sure how much sail area/displacement means for cruising cat performance but a few comparisons
Excess 15 23.25
Saona 47 22.44
Leopard 48 22.20
Lagoon 45 22.06
Outremer 45 25.00

These numbers are based on published light displacement, which means two caveats; are the displacement numbers accurate and how do you load it up.

[Gin-N-Sonic]

Originally Posted by cyan

Who spends more time at the BBQ?

At our household, SHE does

Hell hath no fury like my wife being separated from what she calls "the second child".

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

I'm not sure how much sail area/displacement means for cruising cat performance but a few comparisons
Excess 15 23.25
Saona 47 22.44
Leopard 48 22.20
Lagoon 45 22.06
Outremer 45 25.00

These numbers are based on published light displacement, which means two caveats; are the displacement numbers accurate and how do you load it up.

Interesting SA/D figures - sadly they don’t translate to how well it sails in real world conditions.

I met a couple with a brand spanking new Lagoon 39... and they barely sailed it. SA/D figures were in the mid 20’s but what that actually meant was she was a heavy boat with loads of sail area, so in anything under 20kts “it just won’t sail and we’re faster motoring”.

10.3t for the 12m and 18.4t for the 15m sound like heavy boats to me, regardless of sail area. Rig loadings will be higher, fuel burn will be higher, etc etc

Anyway, need to get one of these in the hands of a tester and see what they’re actually like!

N

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

I'm not sure how much sail area/displacement means for cruising cat performance but a few comparisons
Excess 15 23.25
Saona 47 22.44
Leopard 48 22.20
Lagoon 45 22.06
Outremer 45 25.00

These numbers are based on published light displacement, which means two caveats; are the displacement numbers accurate and how do you load it up.

I would the imagine the numbers are pretty accurate. People always seem to have a mistrust of manufacturer published weights. It's the same in the motorcycle industry, but every one I've weighed had been spot on.

In Europe weights are usually controlled any how.

My boat has a non-manufactuer listed displacement of 3,650kg. On the travel list recently it was 4,450kg which is about right. Off the top of my head I can add up about 700kg of cruising gear, with the rest likely additional fixtures and fittings.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

Interesting SA/D figures - sadly they don’t translate to how well it sails in real world conditions.



I met a couple with a brand spanking new Lagoon 39... and they barely sailed it. SA/D figures were in the mid 20’s but what that actually meant was she was a heavy boat with loads of sail area, so in anything under 20kts “it just won’t sail and we’re faster motoring”.



10.3t for the 12m and 18.4t for the 15m sound like heavy boats to me, regardless of sail area. Rig loadings will be higher, fuel burn will be higher, etc etc



Anyway, need to get one of these in the hands of a tester and see what they’re actually like!



N

Doesn’t the Lagoon 39 have a SA/D of 15?

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Doesn’t the Lagoon 39 have a SA/D of 15?

Must depend on the units

Also, these complaining about brand names going from adventure to luxury appeal, Privilege is pretty old, and Lagoon is still there which is ironic considering it's now the more leisure cat brand of the Beny group

It's interesting as well how Excess are advertised as being sold "ready to sail" as opposed as the usual prices which don't include sails, and many equipments. I guess their success will depend on how big of an economy you can make by loosing the choice of what fittings you get. Apparently on the paper they will be fitted with quality gear

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Doesn’t the Lagoon 39 have a SA/D of 15?

Depending on the website and model, it seems to be anywhere from 20-something to 13!

Either way, these strike me as pretty chunky cats and I’d like to see how they go in real world conditions.

N

[Zzmeyer]

I don't see a new Lagoon 39 on their web site. I see a 38 (20.96) and a 40 (16.83). The calculation and the ones in my prior post are consistent (sail area (upwind standard) and displacement (light)-as published by the manufacturer). There was a 40 in the ARC which provided a pretty good test against other cats. In the ARC, they use the TCF rating system, which although quite simple, gives pretty accurate results. According to the TCF a Lagoon 40 will be about 40 minutes per day behind a Fountaine Pajot Lucia 40 and 80 minutes per day behind the Seawind 1160. They actually finished a day behind the Lucia (but ran their engine 10 hours more than the Lucia) and two days behind the Seawind (which ran its engines about the same as the Lagoon). Lots of variables to play here, but a data point.

[Training Wheels]

Lagoon 39

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/lagoon-39

[Training Wheels]

According to Sailboatdata, the Outremer 45 has a SA/D of 33.

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Lagoon 39

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/lagoon-39

That was replaced by the 40 in 2018.

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

According to Sailboatdata, the Outremer 45 has a SA/D of 33.

Sailboatdata has the wrong displacement number (13,448). According to Outremer the displacement is 19,180. That is still very light given the Excess 15, less than two feet longer is 40,572. Excess makes up for it somewhat with a huge sail area of over 1,700 square feet while the Outremer is 1,184