Beneteau Excess Catamarans Launched

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

I think this sums up the difference. For non liveaboards, poor performance, low bridgedeck and inadequate galley "space" is not an issue when vacationing, chartering or for short trips after which you can go home.
Charter boats put the galley up to maximise and equalise the berth space. Four almost identical cabins with four heads. Even owners versions are primarily designed for "holidays" with guests.

If on the other-hand you looking for a place to live, something that will take you to places far and wide. You need good performance in any conditions, you will not have the luxury of not going out on a "shitty day". The same goes for the outboard helm, when the autopilot fails in a storm or you are in the middle of an ocean a bulkhead steering position just wins. Liveaboards need a simple wipe down practical fit out, wood might be appealing to some but add salt water and some UV and you just end up with "grubby".

The galley up sea sickness myth. Sea sickness is a short duration inconvenience, after 2 days at sea the most profound sufferers will be over it and having a spacious galley down, with stacks of storage, in a more stable location, capable of turning out 3 meals a day for a couple of weeks at a time will come into it's own, as will a massive open "living space" on the bridgedeck for "lounging", playing games and other daytime activities. Having more than 2 heads is a maintenance nightmare and what is the point of a another fixed berth if all you use it for is storage. What you do need is an office or desk with filing as "life" aboard still requires admin and a workshop for fixing stuff.

For ocean sailing a lightweight boat with an easily controllable sail plan that can be reefed single handed from the cockpit when the "s**t" really hits the fan is preferable to a heavy boat and an oversized rig requiring multiple crew.

Living aboard and seasonal usage are two entirely different concepts and what is good for one is not necessarily good for the other.

So the Excess looks like it will be a great charter boat or for seasonal use after all that was the market it was aimed at and copied the most charter friendly bits from other boats to get there. IMO it would make a very poor long term liveaboard cruiser.

So some good points, but some interesting assumptions. I live aboard - 24x7 365 - and I changed the boat from a galley down to galley up configuration. Why? More cooking space, more socially interactive, and easier to use underway. You also don’t sound like you’ve had sea sickness before, and by that I mean proper, debilitating sea sickness. It’s the closest thing to death I’ve ever experienced and no amount of dramamine would touch it. Now, you imagine inviting non-sailing family or friends aboard who are even more susceptible to sea sickness, and have them cook galley down. More vomit with your dinner, sir? Every person who’s come on my boat since the change to galley up has commented on how much better the new arrangement is... and that includes a couple who spent 9 years circumnavigating.

Anyone can choose to not go out on a shitty day - if the weather doesn’t suit, you just don’t go out, and instead enjoy the anchorage you’re in. Sure, if you’re on passage there’s not a lot you can do about crap weather, but then how many of us hand steer on long passages vs autopilot? As for equipment failures well, **** happens. But not buying a catamaran with outboard helms just in case the AP fails seems a bit of a stretch personally.

Other than that, you’re spot on. Lightweight, 2 heads max, good clearance, and a good mix of berths v storage is exactly what a proper liveaboard needs.

Anyway, would be good to know more about the Excess boats. Have they done a listing of what boat shows they’ll be at this Autumn / Fall?

N

[RSH]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Flybridge helms have great visibility and given the Catamaran Impi videos seems to be a great place to hang out even in rougher weather.

Their videos have really given me flybridge envy I struggle with my 380-I just want the helm to be four feet higher up so I can see my corners better (and I'm 5'9"!)

Originally Posted by wagsea6b

On a separate note...I find it interesting that the marketing of many new cat brands specifically targets wealth (I.e Excess, Privilege, Exquisite...). Whatever happened to brands that evoke a sense of the sea/adventure (Oyster, Nauticat, Gulfstar, Passport, Offshore, etc...)?

I'm a Gen X'er (49) and I find the names pretentious and embarrassing. My ford flex has a license frame that says "my other car is a catamaran", and that's about as much bragging as I'm willing to do.

Originally Posted by NahanniV

I was on a very similar Bavaria/Nautec 46 in the Bahamas this past season.

I really liked the layout, but ventilation in the main salon, galley, and cockpit was terrible.

Sailing Ruby Rose did a walk through of this boat and she said much the same thing. I really liked it, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_R7iX3UQtQ&t=813s

Originally Posted by Gin-N-Sonic

I looked at the offerings for the 14m or 15m version, it's a bit "meh" and I'm willing to bet it's going somewhere near $1M.

[/QUOTE]

Antares has galley down, but I do believe they're $1M cats.

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I noticed that the XCS logo is lifting just a bit. They might want to fix that.

That's unforgivable . On the upside, it does make it easier to peel off all the pretentious badges if they're already starting to come off on their own-they can't live with themselves

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

It will be more stable in a rolling anchorage then and laugh in the face of wash from ribs.

My 4,500kg cat dances all over the place if so much as a pedal boat goes past.

My husband was grumping at me for putting china (heavy) in the galley and donating the 10 year old melamine plates from the previous owners. I was like, you say heavy like it's a bad thing. I watch the other boats in the marina bob around like corks when a powerboat blows by, and we barely move. That makes me happy. I'll take a slower sail in exhange-I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere. That's why we bought a sailboat.

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

The galley is a central part of the living on board, it should not be down below, where the admiral gets sea sick while cooking. Happy wife, happy life!

I agree-if I go down into the hulls when we heave to I really struggle with feeling nauseous, and that's with the relief bands going at full zap. Feeling contained and squashed in the hulls is another issue-I'm fine sleeping down there and using the heads, but I need to be up as much as possible when I'm doing anything active.

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

We visited a lot of catamarans before buying, also some galley down installations. We opted for galley up., and for us it was the right choice. We use our guest forward cabin as storage, in choppy seas the admiral stays away from down bellow as long as possible, she does not get sea sick up in the salon, galley or cockpit.

Cooking is a pleasure, you can slide the door and the window to open up the galley to the cockpit, great ventilation and no heat inside, and of course the honeymoon looks to the captain at the helm inclusive after almost 40 years.

But hey, its your wife's choice.

As a wife, I agree with all of this I love that I can open up the door and windows and use the cockpit as part of my cooking and prep space. It just requires thinking about what your kitchen is a little differently. Plus, the grill is on the back-it's a much shorter walk from the grill to the galley when the galley is up.

Originally Posted by Tupaia

The galley up sea sickness myth. Sea sickness is a short duration inconvenience, after 2 days at sea the most profound sufferers will be over it and having a spacious galley down, with stacks of storage, in a more stable location, capable of turning out 3 meals a day for a couple of weeks at a time will come into it's own, as will a massive open "living space" on the bridgedeck for "lounging", playing games and other daytime activities. Having more than 2 heads is a maintenance nightmare and what is the point of a another fixed berth if all you use it for is storage.

For ocean sailing a lightweight boat with an easily controllable sail plan that can be reefed single handed from the cockpit when the "s**t" really hits the fan is preferable to a heavy boat and an oversized rig requiring multiple crew.

I agree with you about the toilets-I was adamant that the boat we bought had 2. One to use and one for backup. The argument has been made that you need more to source for parts in case 1 or (omg) 2 fail, but I'd rather poop off the sugar scoop than sail with two failed heads, so my argument has always been have two heads in good working condition.

The rest I disagree with-I've been seasick for a week at times. The relief band has made it possible for us to sail, but without that sucker short circuiting our vagus nerve, there's been no "getting used to it" for us.

I'm also not a fan of twitchy, lightweight boats.

Originally Posted by ausnp84

You also don’t sound like you’ve had sea sickness before, and by that I mean proper, debilitating sea sickness. It’s the closest thing to death I’ve ever experienced and no amount of dramamine would touch it. Now, you imagine inviting non-sailing family or friends aboard who are even more susceptible to sea sickness, and have them cook galley down. More vomit with your dinner, sir?

Anyone can choose to not go out on a shitty day - if the weather doesn’t suit, you just don’t go out, and instead enjoy the anchorage you’re in. Sure, if you’re on passage there’s not a lot you can do about crap weather, but then how many of us hand steer on long passages vs autopilot? As for equipment failures well, **** happens. But not buying a catamaran with outboard helms just in case the AP fails seems a bit of a stretch personally.

Other than that, you’re spot on. Lightweight, 2 heads max, good clearance, and a good mix of berths v storage is exactly what a proper liveaboard needs.

N

Agree 100%. I really don't want our daughters to never visit and be on the boat because it's not comfortable. At this point we've owned the boat for 8 months and we're still working on getting it to the point where we feel comfortable having anyone but the two of us aboard, because we want others to have a good experience. That means both sailing skills and being on a boat that is a joy to be aboard.

To bring this back to the original topic, I'll be interested to see how this new crop of catamarans shakes out in the coming years as more land lubbers like us gravitate to the ocean, and choose catamarans vs a beach or mountain house. With GPS and solar/batteries making it easier to stay in touch and youtube whipping those retirement dreams into a watery frenzy, it's going to be a fascinating decade...

[Zzmeyer]

The naming, as mentioned, is a bit off putting. I always liked the Chevy Nova, when exported to Mexico translated as the Chevy No Go.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

The naming, as mentioned, is a bit off putting. I always liked the Chevy Nova, when exported to Mexico translated as the Chevy No Go.

Can't be any worse than Rapier. I can imagine a conversation with someone.

Me asking about her 3rd date with some guy.

"Did he hold your hand, and kiss you goodnight"

Her:

"No, it was much Rapier than that"



Could be worse though. My current manufacturer means fart in French.

[LeeV]

IMHO a discussion of sea sickness doesn’t belong in this thread - whatever you believe. Having had it on monos, multis and on a tall ship in the North Sea, my experience is there’s no rhyme or reason. Diesel smell can set off!

There are lots of references out there from pro sailors/racers: https://www.sailing.org/news/19252.php#.XUmF8MopChA

My wife is fine until she goes below while underway...every time.

Just my $.02 worth

Regards,

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

I think this sums up the difference. For non liveaboards, poor performance, low bridgedeck and inadequate galley "space" is not an issue when vacationing, chartering or for short trips after which you can go home.
Charter boats put the galley up to maximise and equalise the berth space.

I think you have it mostly right.. except that galley-up is an absolute requirement for our liveaboard use, according to the one of us that uses the galley. That's more of a lifestyle choice, less of a charter/liveaboard thing, IMO. To each her own...

[Zzmeyer]

The Outremer is a cruising cat that will blow the doors off every cruising cat with galley down. I'm convinced it is because the galley is in fact up, not down which makes a catamaran fast.

[CatNewBee]

I apreciate, there are different dessigns for different requirements, I would think twice before going the galley down route, there is a reason, why galley up cats outnumber the galley down population, even with liveaboard sailors. For a monohull, galley up is really rare...

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

The Outremer is a cruising cat that will blow the doors off every cruising cat with galley down. I'm convinced it is because the galley is in fact up, not down which makes a catamaran fast.

Broadblue, Shionning and Seawind owners want a word with you.

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Broadblue, Shionning and Seawind owners want a word with you.

Broadblue is a galley up, Shionning is a kit and the only Seawind in the same length as an Outremer is the 52, which is also galley up. Just goes to prove, galley up means speed, baby.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

Broadblue is a galley up, Shionning is a kit and the only Seawind in the same length as an Outremer is the 52, which is also galley up. Just goes to prove, galley up means speed, baby.

At least concerning the meals, really fast food. Shorter supply chain, directly served to the cockpit...

[barnakiel]

Very cool boats.


Just why sail?


I think the future is POWER CATS.


!!!


b.

[CatNewBee]

The future is rowing boats to save the planet...

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

Broadblue is a galley up, Shionning is a kit and the only Seawind in the same length as an Outremer is the 52, which is also galley up. Just goes to prove, galley up means speed, baby.

Many Broadblues are galley down, and in the newer ones you get a choice.

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

The future is rowing boats to save the planet...

Save it for who, and for what purpose?

[fxykty]

Generally higher performance cruising catamarans have narrower hulls. Narrow hulls (at least the ones of our Outremer55L) do not have enough width at waist level for a counter and a cook, let alone the additional cupboards and everything else. One could replace the guest head (partially tucked behind the daggerboard case, adjacent to the salon) with a galley, but it would be smaller than our galley up (which is also relatively small). And then we’d need to remove the forward berth for a forward head for our guests. No couches or desks in our hulls.

So, there is a correlation that performance cat = galley up, but it’s not causation. And not universal.

And let’s stop with the sexism - how about happy husband happy life? I spend just as much time at the galley as my wife.

Galley up is one of a myriad of choices, and I expect one of the single choices that are not deal breakers. Well, maybe headroom or berth length, but I can’t imagine much else would be a stand alone factor - your boat choice is based on the boat as a whole, isn’t it?

One feature of galley up barely mentioned is the benefit of easy access to the cockpit and any bbq cooking going on.

Back to Excess, I agree the implications of the name are rather strange, but I suppose that anyone who can afford $1M plus for a coastal cruiser best suited to motoring between stops is not going to balk at the name. Regarding the logo, isn’t it just raised and back-mirrored rather than lifting?