Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-02-2024, 00:11   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 323
Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

I am shocked about this report regarding the major quality and safety-issues with Marsaudon Composite catamarans.
Unfortunately it reveals major management issues which - until now - seem to get concealed by the buyer of the company, Grand Large Yachting (takeover in 2023), which is effectively Outremer and Gunboat when it comes to catamarans.
Any potential buyers of Marsaudon second hand vessels - pay attention.

Youtube: Keel broke off mid-Atlantic - Marsaudon ORC42 Catamaran
myocean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-2024, 00:20   #2
Registered User
 
Uncle Bob's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 3,419
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
I am shocked about this report regarding the major quality and safety-issues with Marsaudon Composite catamarans.
Unfortunately it reveals major management issues which - until now - seem to get concealed by the buyer of the company, Grand Large Yachting (takeover in 2023), which is effectively Outremer and Gunboat when it comes to catamarans.
Any potential buyers of Marsaudon second hand vessels - pay attention.

Youtube: Keel broke off mid-Atlantic - Marsaudon ORC42 Catamaran
agree, even though the affected buyer went through the lengthy legal process and won apparently the owners still won't pay. So very lagoon.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.

Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
Uncle Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-2024, 10:31   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 31
Images: 16
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

John’s situation is so painful. I trembled with emotion while watching.

For 5 years this guy was in court. He was in the right. He was following the law…….and two days before he won, the defendant claimed insolvency, and sold the assets to GLY.

So now, John is out his purchase money, his boat, his prime years, his rental income (very strong last 4 years), and certainly his mental/spiritual health. I admire him tremendously for his fortitude. My god what fortitude!

The legal system has failed him. May his future success come soon and be substantial. In a way, it is almost up to us as the boaters who put money into this industry. GLY must publicly acknowledge this injustice, not that they are primarily responsible, but it is their moral obligation since they are clearly in a position to resolve.

Damn I wish I could help this guy.
Rorke Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2024, 19:12   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia
Boat: Seawind 1190 sport
Posts: 101
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

wow. that report would be frightening to anyone who owns one, both in terms of seaworthiness and safety, but also the evasion of responsibility. Glad i bought a seawind, very well built and all defects that did exist (with components, not what they built which was flawless) were corrected. Good people, well bulit boat. Glad I didn't buy a French boat.
DougM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2024, 20:58   #5
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,095
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

As a marine surveyor I have recommended for years that new boats be surveyed prior to final acceptance. Few buyers take my recommendation seriously but some of those that have were shocked by my findings.

Many years ago in a factory of perhaps the best known powerboat mfg in the US I witnessed one one knowledgeable person supervising 20 minimum wage, unskilled people on the factory floor. He could not possibly stay on top of all those unskilled people.

The worst one I saw was a 40' powerboat with a 3 sq. ft area of a balsa bottom with no ... NO glass fiber on the outer skin ... Just gelcoat, balsa then some chopped glass and resin on the inner skin.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2024, 13:15   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 31
Images: 16
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

John fell overboard. The crew upon whom he relied, refused to throw a life ring.

Yet, John endured, swimming toward a moving boat. Moving, yet miraculously losing wind. At long last, she was motionless; more particularly, dead in the water.

Unfortunately, a new captain appeared on deck and relieved the crew responsible for navigating into the breathless depression.

The new captain was aware John was getting closer…only two arm lengths remained after 1,825 grueling strokes.

Then, the world renowned, French captain started the engine. And with a flick of the wrist so effortless that it seemed not only habitual but planned, he throttled away.

To his crew, or perhaps to himself, the captain then declared…“More bread for us”.
Rorke Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2024, 13:49   #7
Registered User
 
ozolli's Avatar

Join Date: May 2021
Location: France
Boat: CM50 (launch 2025)
Posts: 93
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

What do you mean?
ozolli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2024, 14:41   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southport CT
Boat: Sabre 402
Posts: 2,721
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozolli View Post
What do you mean?
Sounds like a commentary on the French bankruptcy court.
psk125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2024, 02:15   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 883
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

In our continuing series of why you shouldn't buy a modern French cruising multihull. This boat has been constructed without proper glue and fibreglass tabbing on structural members. Guess what? Bad backup from the builder.



Awful story again
catsketcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2024, 03:10   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 47
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorke Miller View Post
John fell overboard. The crew upon whom he relied, refused to throw a life ring.

Yet, John endured, swimming toward a moving boat. Moving, yet miraculously losing wind. At long last, she was motionless; more particularly, dead in the water.

Unfortunately, a new captain appeared on deck and relieved the crew responsible for navigating into the breathless depression.

The new captain was aware John was getting closer…only two arm lengths remained after 1,825 grueling strokes.

Then, the world renowned, French captain started the engine. And with a flick of the wrist so effortless that it seemed not only habitual but planned, he throttled away.

To his crew, or perhaps to himself, the captain then declared…“More bread for us”.
This parable doesn't quite reflect reality. It would be more accurate to say that the ship (Marsaudon) was already sinking fast (bankrupt) and the crew were in the liferaft. Then the new French captain (GLY) appeared in a different boat and was able to save most of the crew (employees still have jobs) as the ship sank beneath the waves. He may never have even known that John was there until it was too late. Did he have enough fuel to turn back and get him? Would more people have been better off if the captain had never shown up? Should he have attempted to salvage the sinking ship, knowing that it would put his own crew and vessel at significant risk?

Being a creditor of a bankrupt business truly sucks, but it's the unfortunate outcome of buying from a poorly managed company with quality problems. Whether the Marsaudon quality issues persist or get fixed entirely depends on how GLY manages the team and processes. It's too early to tell, but if I were buying a boat from that yard in the near term, I'd think very seriously about having a surveyor take a regular look at the construction process.
Flobble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2024, 07:13   #11
Registered User
 
ozolli's Avatar

Join Date: May 2021
Location: France
Boat: CM50 (launch 2025)
Posts: 93
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

So what do we have here. Obvious quality issues on one TS42. Nobody will disagree with it.

Has anyone have heard of any other boat made by Marsaudon with quality issues?

There is one story on one boat, and we have one side only of this story, and everyone says all Marsaudon boats are bad?

And then some step on top on this and says all boats made in France are bad?

Pity...
ozolli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2024, 07:52   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,481
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozolli View Post
So what do we have here. Obvious quality issues on one TS42. Nobody will disagree with it.

Has anyone have heard of any other boat made by Marsaudon with quality issues?

There is one story on one boat, and we have one side only of this story, and everyone says all Marsaudon boats are bad?

And then some step on top on this and says all boats made in France are bad?

Pity...
Some people do not understand that anecdote is not a synonym for data.

Just in the way of anecdote, I watched two new from the factory Lagoons being prepared for a boat show. The day after they arrived in the yard with factory packaging still on them, it rained. The smaller of the two bloomed with literally thousands of tiny rust spots. Some idiot in the factory was obviously allowed to grind something made of ferrous metal, and tiny specs of it covered the decks—all over—invisible until they started to bleed rust into the gelcoat. Totally inexcusable.

While they were being rigged we then had a series of bright sunny days. The larger, flagship of the line, cat bloomed in a different way. Clear epoxy had been dripped all over the exterior gelcoat of the aft of one hull. Exposed to the sun, it quickly developed a dull yellow color.

The displaying dealer had more than a little bit of a rush to fix these problems before the show. I hope for his sake the factory covered the cost of this totally unnecessary rework.

Neither of these were a catastrophic event that compromised the seaworthiness of the hulls, they were just things easily seen by a casual observer walking by on the dock. Both issues point to a serious lack of good manufacturing practices and controls. If such things do not give you serious pause about the assembly quality of the parts you can not see on any boat, of any kind, from that manufacturer, then you are not thinking clearly.

On the other hand, some of the best built boats in the world come out of other French factories run by different companies.
SailingHarmonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2024, 05:28   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 31
Images: 16
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flobble View Post
This parable doesn't quite reflect reality. It would be more accurate to say that the ship (Marsaudon) was already sinking fast (bankrupt) and the crew were in the liferaft. Then the new French captain (GLY) appeared in a different boat and was able to save most of the crew (employees still have jobs) as the ship sank beneath the waves. He may never have even known that John was there until it was too late. Did he have enough fuel to turn back and get him? Would more people have been better off if the captain had never shown up? Should he have attempted to salvage the sinking ship, knowing that it would put his own crew and vessel at significant risk?
.
Your version is logical. I can very much see this from the point of view you shared.

We don’t know that GLY knew about this guy, but for a sale to be executed two days after he winning an 1850 day legal battle is a suspect….to me.

We know that John bought a race horse and rented it out to plow fields. It was bound to break a leg or something. Not a great idea if you hope to ever race that horse again.

John didn’t deny the boat running aground. With no damage to the bottoms of the keels/rudders, I think she was on smooth sand/mud/clay. However, since charterers generally don’t know to throw out a kedge out to sea, the boat may have lifted and landed countless times on the flood. (Gotta kedge!)

Regardless, a survey determined that the keel design was insufficient. I am not an engineer and my understanding of of lamination schedules is puny. But, I can read the conclusion of the report. In this case, the expert concluded that the design did not meet the governing body’s standards. (Do I have that right?). Maybe if it met standards, it would have survived.

Nothing excuses Marsauden from the dry foam or the support that separated twice.

So John won…after he lost.

It would be uplifting if GLY reached out to him and told wrote,
“We are sorry about the timing of this acquisition. Your old boat will be ready in 4 months. In the meanwhile, here is a loaner boat and $100,000.
We are under no obligation to do this and do not intend to make this a normal practice. However, you seem cool. We are trying to be cool.”
Rorke Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2024, 15:56   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 2,922
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
I am shocked about this report regarding the major quality and safety-issues with Marsaudon Composite catamarans.
Unfortunately it reveals major management issues which - until now - seem to get concealed by the buyer of the company, Grand Large Yachting (takeover in 2023), which is effectively Outremer and Gunboat when it comes to catamarans.
Any potential buyers of Marsaudon second hand vessels - pay attention.

Youtube: Keel broke off mid-Atlantic - Marsaudon ORC42 Catamaran
Sadly as the TS42 was more or less the only 42ft performance cat...was on my short list..obviously off now.
CaptainRivet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2024, 00:14   #15
Registered User
 
ozolli's Avatar

Join Date: May 2021
Location: France
Boat: CM50 (launch 2025)
Posts: 93
Re: Be careful with buying Marsaudon TS42 / ORC 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
Sadly as the TS42 was more or less the only 42ft performance cat...was on my short list..obviously off now.
With the stern extensions the ORC42 is a 45ft cat. The majority of them are that size.

It was also on my short list last year but a bit too small for a family of 4. In fact there is hardly any cupboard in this boat. It's ok for one month holiday but not all year round.

I ordered a CM46 from Current Marine in South Africa. Construction starting in May.
Here if you want to have a look : https://currentmarine.co.za/cm46/
ozolli is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
buying

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which boat? (O45, SW 1260, ORC 42, others?) MillisDean Multihull Sailboats 13 15-04-2023 11:41
ORC polars to Predict Wind BigAl.NZ Monohull Sailboats 0 12-04-2021 23:17
TS42 Catamaran designed by Christophe Barreau brainmaker Multihull Sailboats 26 17-10-2019 02:04
For Sale: Plastimo ORC+ Cruiser Liferaft Valise 4 person SailAllDay General Classifieds (no boats) 0 23-08-2016 14:36

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.