Bali Cats

[Franziska]

Further, they might be quite reasonably priced a few years down the line because fewer folks would actually buy one for cruising, and a high number of boats might come out of charter.

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by bvimatelot

Ah, Mike (good to hear you btw!)

After hurricane season, I have been earmarked to deliver at least one more from France.... Cheers, Tony

Good to hear from you as well Tony. Pleased to hear you are still getting deliveries as well. Must have been tough in the BVI after Irma and Covid.

[Mr. Kevin]

Originally Posted by absoffthewake

Aint that the truth! Many find that out the hard way.

It is strange how some folks cannot divorce (pun intended) solidity and aestetics. While my wife is very interested, everytime we get on a boat, she leaves me to manage the sailing and will only do something if told.

[Fore and Aft]

It may seem funny to say but I survey plenty of boats where the owner is not interested in sailing. They are more after a floating caravan (RV) or out to tick a box. More often than not they will unfurl the headsail and jog along under motor as well to keep the daily average up. Marina hopping and the occasional anchorage is the norm for them. Thats where these cats win, they really are like an apartment and if there's a little discomfort between stops then its ok.
Cheers

[Farang]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I continually wonder why you'd spend so much coin on a boat with a mast if you ain't going to use it when a powered vessel can be had for much less coin and can often offer greater comforts and utility.

As a full time cruiser, ex cat sailor and builder I have noticed the new breed of cat buyers don't sail much anyway
I suspect it's because for many, it's their first boat and they have done little research past youtube, boat shows, glossy brochures and shiny interiors.
Sell house put it all into floating apartment with mast and motor everywhere with headsail up at best because they can't sail, or it won't sail, not unless they are out in 20 knots of wind and then we see most making a bee line to the nearest marina because of the "strong winds"

Those that have actually sailed or owned cats before and or have at least done some research are generally not buying production boats and if they are, they are most certainly leaning heavily towards those with performance and waterline length vs foredeck swimming pools.

It’s hard to believe that an an ex cat sailor and builder would be so down on those just trying to get out on the water to experience the joy of sail. I guess if Russia and SA keep restricting oil output and the price of diesel continues rising, those with fuel only options won’t be venturing too far afield.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Farang

It’s hard to believe that an an ex cat sailor and builder would be so down on those just trying to get out on the water to experience the joy of sail.

.

If you just want to get out on the water and experience the joy of sail there are far more affordable ways of doing it.
We did that on a YW Diamond for $2500.

If you want to cruise in actual comfort it gets harder.
We did it in reasonable comfort in the first cat we built, but we were dependent on going ashore regularly to re-supply and couldn't actually stay out for long, couldn't carry a big load for started.

To do it full time we needed good load carrying ability that would not affect performance, weight being the enemy of a multihull that meant it was going to be big.

To get a similar level of comfort to what we enjoy now, with proper walk around king sized bed, real refrigeration and freezer space (800+ litres) , a household size kitchen, laundry, ability to carry a 4m+ tender we'd need at least 60ft.
That'd give us no more than average joe would expect from a two or three bedroom waterfront appartment

This one for $850,000 aud doesn't get us there
https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...hera-60/283835

This one at $1.6 million AUD does, pretty much
https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...oon-620/285969

But, it's a lot of sail for 2 to control and it ain't going to do well in light wind anyway
Fire up the diesels - 110hp X 2 for propulsion running at 60% load = 130hp.
Volvo Penta Diesel D3-110 1 X 110 HP = 21.5 LPH WOT
@ 60% around 10lph X 2 = 20lph?

130hp is a bit more than we use to maintain our 7.5 knot cruise pushing 60+ tonne
We use considerably less than 20lph.



To the financial side of things.
To get that we'd have to sell everything and take a major hit to our yearly income
First time out of the water for maintenance where is the money coming from?

Instead, we got what we got for about 1/16th of the price
Sold nothing to buy her, keep all of our assets
Have plenty of cash coming in for paid maintenance and fuel

I guess if Russia and SA keep restricting oil output and the price of diesel continues rising, those with fuel only options won’t be venturing too far afield

Price of oil will affect sail as well (they are made from oil products)
Especially sail that relies on 110hp X 2 to get around in seas with little wind.
And just as well Malaysia and Brunei make their own diesel and sell if for a lot less in their waters.

[Farang]

[I][/I]


[/QUOTE]
And just as well Malaysia and Brunei make their own diesel and sell if for a lot less in their waters.[/QUOTE]

That’s like crossing town to fill up your tank at the cheapest servo. You’re kinda restricted if your cruising is tied to the cheapest fuel in countries that subsidise fuel for their own citizens and not for obviously wealthy foreigners who have lots of assets.

[Jeannius]

Well, just finished a two week charter on a Bali 4.5 from 2019. We were absolutely amazed by the space and amount of storage aboard a boat that is the same length and 18 inch wider than our beloved Privilege 435. Felt like a way bigger boat. Quality of the interior was better than we expected although bland and probably very heavy. Quality was also better than expected behind the scenes with electrics and plumbing installed well. At least equal with Lagoon. Only real concern on quality was when I noticed I could see light from my stern cabin shining through the topsides even around fittings such as the clutch for the jib furling line. Haven't seen anything like that since Athena era FPs.

Now, the not so good. That forward lounging area. No idea how a wave that gets into there is supposed to drain away. Only discernible way out is through the anchor locker and that is going to drain very slowly.

The anchoring arrangements on this boat were horrible. It had a horizontal Lofrans windlass over a badly arranged anchor locker. This boat had 60 metres or more of chain and once you had more than half the chain away, you had to stop every few metres and reach through a small, badly finished, hole in the fibreglass to push the chain away from under the windlass. If you didn't do this the chain would pile up between the gypsy and the deck, jump off the gypsy and all 60 plus metres of chain would run out. You had probably 1 second to release the up-button after the chain starting to pile and it jumping off the gypsy and all running out. Of course this always happened at 03:00 with the wind howling, the rain lashing down and thunder and lightning going on all around.

How did it sail? No idea. The Med was in it's normal summer mode with either less than 5 knots or more than 40 knots (which always happened at night with aforementioned thunderstorm). I think we sailed for less than an hour in two weeks and that was in 6 to 7 knots and we managed a bit over 3 at best.

Conclusions... Great charter boat, better quality than expected. Would I buy one? Not if I planned going out of sight of land. The thought of getting a wave into that forward lounging area is just terrifying. I've always disliked the idea of flybridges and after three weeks on a Lagoon 50 last year and now two weeks on the Bali, my instinctive dislike has been confirmed. For charter and coastal liveaboard, this Bali is brilliant, for more adventurous sailing then it wouldn't be for me.

[HUFFnPUFF]

Originally Posted by Franziska

They are designed for the charter market, so interior volume and usable deck space are priorities.

They have a fairly low bridgedeck clearance and rigid foredeck. The latter are increasing the risk of bridgedeck slamming in rough weather.
Undesirable for an offshore cruiser.
A lot of slamming might create structural issues in a few years down the line.

Still, they seem to offer quite large engines. We saw one speeding past us under the engine the other day, and it went quite fast, almost looked like a power yacht despite the rigging.

Actually, they have a very high bridge deck. No issues with slamming up to about 7 foot seas. So really no difference then other cats

[HUFFnPUFF]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

My experience having been on a few at the dock, cheap and nasty. I saw plenty of that cheap melamine veneer over particle board peeling up for example.

Sorry, I have to call you out on this one. Absolutely no particle board. All marine grade ply. Mine was in charter for five years and it's in great shape. No creeking at all.

[HUFFnPUFF]

Originally Posted by chrisr

thanks

don't get me wrong. it's not the design concept that will disappoint.

imho it'll be the build quality and (lack of) performance. afterall, getting passed by that 40' mono ultimate offshore cruiser is going to lead to quite a few embarrassing remarks on the beach when you do finally get to that island !

cheers,

Hmm, on a beam reach, I am doing 8 knots with a fixed prop and a jib. It will point to about 40* AWA before it really drops and it gets going around 45* AWA. I have a Bali 4.0.