Bali Cats

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by absoffthewake

Aint that the truth! Many find that out the hard way.

i'm called to mind the rule about renting & the 3 'F's...but i'm not going to repeat it in polite company (or here for that matter )

cheers,

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kevin

Hi Folks,

I was browsing today and came across the Bali website. Does anyone have any intelligence regarding this manufacturer? I like a lot of what I saw, but the Devil is in the details. Hard to say if it sails like it says on paper. Although I am not sure about the fly bridge...

Losts of room in the engine compartment and they were using Yanmars.

My experience having been on a few at the dock, cheap and nasty. I saw plenty of that cheap melamine veneer over particle board peeling up for example.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by absoffthewake

Aint that the truth! Many find that out the hard way.

You're just doing it wrong lol

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I continually wonder why you'd spend so much coin on a boat with a mast if you ain't going to use it when a powered vessel can be had for much less coin and can often offer greater comforts and utility.

As a full time cruiser, ex cat sailor and builder I have noticed the new breed of cat buyers don't sail much anyway
I suspect it's because for many, it's their first boat and they have done little research past youtube, boat shows, glossy brochures and shiny interiors.
Sell house put it all into floating apartment with mast and motor everywhere with headsail up at best because they can't sail, or it won't sail, not unless they are out in 20 knots of wind and then we see most making a bee line to the nearest marina because of the "strong winds"

Those that have actually sailed or owned cats before and or have at least done some research are generally not buying production boats and if they are, they are most certainly leaning heavily towards those with performance and waterline length vs foredeck swimming pools.

Yep - I dont get why people buy sailing boats that wont sail, if someone really likes the Bali and doesnt care if it sails then order it without rig and sails, use that money to pay for diesel. I mean really they wouldnt sail out of site on a dark night with a cyclone up their bottom

[bvimatelot]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

I'm chartering one in just over two weeks. I'm expecting it to be spacious, not great quality and sail like a dog. I'll let you know if I'm right or wrong by the end of September!

Ah, Mike (good to hear you btw!)

I have delivered 2 of them transatlantic from builder's Yard to Annapolis and Antigua and several from Florida to BVI. Without a Code Zero they are a little doggy.

As others have said, its the kea version of Catana without daggerboards. Absolutely ideal for Caribbean cruising and very popular in the charter fleets here.

As for passage making - I don't reckon they slam too much. I've always reckoned that bridgedeck clearance is (almost) a non issue in that the difference between the highest and the lowest is only measured in inches (or metric if one must!) which really makes no difference in 8 foot or higher waves. Although I have always been leery of hard foredecks and no trampoline, driven correctly, I haven't found any real problem even in F8 on the nose with reasonably large and sometimes breaking, waves.

The Accommodation is palatial and the enormous Fridge/freezer got us across the atlantic without needing restocking. HOWEVER - being a tall fridge - one is entirely likely to get a face full of frozen chicken or a bowl of salad in your face when miss-timing opening the door in rough weather!

The ones I have delivered were all French built but Catana opened another build site in Tunisia (cheaper labour costs and no obstructive unionism, I suspect). However they are rigidly controlled by the French builder so I would see no problem with the quality of build.

After hurricane season, I have been earmarked to deliver at least one more from France.... Cheers, Tony

[rupertfb]

I bring catamarans back and forth to/from the Caribbean regularly and have had the chance to sail (long distance offshore) pretty much all of the popular Caribbean charter models, and have also skippered them all around BVI/USVI for people wishing to do a snorkel/cocktail/sunset/vacation.

All of them are a compromise between seaworthiness and snorkeling barge.
The Bali takes the concept further towards 'snorkeling barge' than any of the others, at the expense of seaworthiness. It's an excellent vacation vessel in the right location.

In conclusion, I'm not disrespecting the Bali concept.......it just depends what you intend to do with it.

[Bullshooter]

Originally Posted by rupertfb

It's an excellent vacation vessel in the right location.

In conclusion, I'm not disrespecting the Bali concept.......it just depends what you intend to do with it.

Agree. I chartered a 4.1 for a great vacation in Croatia. Great, livable boat for that. Admittedly did not point well, but we mostly sailed, not motored where we were going, except when our destination was directly to windward.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by rupertfb

...It's an excellent vacation vessel in the right location.

In conclusion, I'm not disrespecting the Bali concept.......it just depends what you intend to do with it...

i think this gets to the heart of the question. the bali is not a great (or even a good) boat...but it does what it was designed to do very well, and this should be recognised and respected

the builder will no doubt make a lot of money out of the bali brand, and most charterers will love it

the ones that will really suffer are punters who buy a 5yo ex charter bali to sail around the world with !

cheers,

[Fore and Aft]

Chrisr I don't think they will suffer circumnavigating with a Bali cat. Worse cat designs than that have sailed some serious miles. The Heavenly Twins circumnavigated, and Oceanic 30 cat went around Cape Horn.
I could imagine you might have an average offshore passage in say the Bali cat. But once anchored in your floating apartment the flaws fade into the background. Then to reinforce your cat choice you are invited onboard a 40-foot mono ultimate offshore cruiser design (whatever that is) for dinner. After knocking your knees under the dining table, keeping out of the way of the cook and then realising they don't have a guest ensuite you realise that you would rather sacrifice a bit of sailing performance in return for more liveability.
Cheers

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Chrisr I don't think they will suffer circumnavigating with a Bali cat. Worse cat designs than that have sailed some serious miles. The Heavenly Twins circumnavigated, and Oceanic 30 cat went around Cape Horn.
I could imagine you might have an average offshore passage in say the Bali cat. But once anchored in your floating apartment the flaws fade into the background. Then to reinforce your cat choice you are invited onboard a 40-foot mono ultimate offshore cruiser design (whatever that is) for dinner. After knocking your knees under the dining table, keeping out of the way of the cook and then realising they don't have a guest ensuite you realise that you would rather sacrifice a bit of sailing performance in return for more liveability.
Cheers

thanks

don't get me wrong. it's not the design concept that will disappoint.

imho it'll be the build quality and (lack of) performance. afterall, getting passed by that 40' mono ultimate offshore cruiser is going to lead to quite a few embarrassing remarks on the beach when you do finally get to that island !

cheers,

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Chrisr I don't think they will suffer circumnavigating with a Bali cat. Worse cat designs than that have sailed some serious miles. The Heavenly Twins circumnavigated, and Oceanic 30 cat went around Cape Horn.

Agree with that

you realise that you would rather sacrifice a bit of sailing performance in return for more liveability.

Not necessary to make that trade off, there are some nice multis out there that will sail very well and be comfortable.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by rupertfb

All of them are a compromise between seaworthiness and snorkeling barge.

If by all of them you mean the ones you have sailed from the Carribean and they only include the usual fat overweight pigs, then yeah, but if by all of them you mean all multis then - NO - definitely not.

[sv Stella Maris]

Bali-Motor-Sailing-Charter-Boats…

That should convey all you need to know. Will it sail, obviously yes. Is it designed to be a sailboat, obviously no.

I am next to half a dozen here in the yard. They have high volume like the other fair weather charter boats. They are nicely appointed with luxury finishes. I would not hesitate to buy one for running a charter if that was my intent and I preferred a Bali floor plan.

People, please note that Hobie 16’s are not, relatively speaking, speed demons…and they have almost no weight and a large rig. Don’t expect that any sail plan will make a floating condo “sail well”. The real engineering accomplishment is that they sail at all, relatively dependably I will say.

And yes, I have owned a newer Lagoon, and am now on an older 60’ Fountaine Pajot. I like all boats, but don’t make or expect them do what they are not truly intended for.

[sv Stella Maris]

Farang: Simi 60 might not have used enough diplomacy for your likings, but everything he said was spot on. I watch the scenario he spelled out happen weekly.

And fossil fuels ? My Lagoon had only 300 hours on each engine after my family was aboard full time and sailed thousands of miles. That’s still a lot of dièsel; but moreso, my new sails and running rigging were definitely not a product of sunshine and rainbows. I can’t imagine how many hundreds of gallons of diesel were involved in producing my massive plastic sails…Sails: range extenders, absolutely, flat out better for the environment…not so much.

[Franziska]

There is nothing wrong with a motor sailing catamaran, which the Bali are essentially.

If you have time and are not in a hurry, they might even work as a cruising boat.
If your style of cruising is primarily coastal, you spend a lot of time at anchor and primarily sail with the wind from behind they probably make for a reasonable good cruising platform.

The big engines can help to move you fast to a safer anchorage if anything bad comes your way. Mind you with the huge windage they have, you want big engines in any case.

If you are after some sailing excitement, the Bali are likely not for you.

Personally I'd rather buy an older Privilege, Lagoon or Fountaine, certainly one without those horrible full height fly bridge.