B&G autopilots

[jdazey]

Hi Paul,
We just installed a B&G H5000 system on a boat similar to yours. We started with the existing Hynautic helm and Hynautic rams, added an L&S RV3 pump, and the following from B&G:
H5000 Hercules processor
H5000 autopilot
Autopilot controller
Graphic display
Zeus3 9 plotter
Precision 9 compass
213 MHU
Autopilot remote

and some other stuff. We did the installation ourselves with guidance from Achillefs at Chicago Marine Electronics. The MHU was defective, but B&G has sent a replacement that I will install in a week when we get back to the boat. B&G indicated that the Hercules level was required for true wind angle steering which we wanted.

So far the autopilot works great (no wind steering due to defective MHU), installation was not hard, nor was configuration. While I prefer laptops to plotters, this one uses less power, shows charts, radar, and CHIP depth sound all on one display. It was certainly not inexpensive, but so far we're happy.

Cheers,

[GRIT]

Hi Joe. Thanks very much for your reply.

First off, how was chicago marine electronics to deal with? That's where I'm getting my pricing and information from too. The B&G rep says that my local B&G retailer isn't authorized to sell the h5000 stuff, something about not having qualified support staff... Sounds odd, but there you go.

Thanks also for the Hercules information. We're also looking for that feature, and did not know we had to upgrade from the hydra CPU to get it.

I'm also a big fan of laptop navigation, but the B&G software (especially sailsteer) is convincing. This is our "retirement" boat, so we also decided on the Zeus3 plotter, and perhaps a little vulcan 5 at the helm. So many bells and whistles going on this boat, I don't even recognize myself any more. I've always lived by the mantra of KISS.

Will the graphic display show charts too? I don't see it mentioned on their website.

Are you happy with the screen size of the 9? We had planned to use the 12, but it's a bit tight in the nav station, and I may benefit from a slightly smaller display.

I'm headed to Fl on Friday, and hope to stop at west marine and look at the displays. So far, we've not seen any of this stuff in real life.

I'd look forward to hearing a report on the performance of the pilot on wind mode, once you get the mhu installed, if you're so inclined.


As an aside. We like the voyager very much, as it's one of the first cats we'd ever been aboard, in georgetown bahamas back in 2001, it brings back special memories.

Cheers.
Paul.

[rom]

@Paul: of course you don't know if you need both a "CPU" and a "computer", what a poor choice of words from b&g ! It is not a good start that they fail to explain clearly which of their numerous equipments are required to setup an AP system.

@jdazey: so it seems you need a H5000 computer and then you need to add a CPU. One of "hydra", "hercules" or "performance". The website says "AWA and TWA steering" for "H5000 Computer", but then they tell you need the more expensive "CPU" to actually get that feature ?!

@rabbi: I did a quick check and it seems your right about equipment version & compatibility, this is shocking. A triton 1 is nmea2000 and certainly has everything it takes to send parameters to whatever AP, should it require a software update for the latest AP.

Well, @sean, keep up the good work on you open source AP ! I will not be an early adopter but I will follow the development for sure. I use opencpn everyday, thanks to you among others !

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by svquintana

The NAC-3 and the H5000 are different autopilots, the H5000 autopilot and CPU come to double the price of the NAC-3 autopilot.



An example of the H5000 system, which also includes H5000 branded instruments. For the pilot, you need the CPU, speed sensor, heading sensor, rudder sensor, wind sensor, and the Pilot computer at a minimum, to have a working system.
The Hydra CPU shown is the base H5000 CPU, there's also a Hercules, and a Performance CPU, which is nearly triple the price of the Hydra CPU.

At least that's my understanding until B&G returns my e-mail questioning that. With the NAC-3, you only need a controller, and the NAC-3 pilot computer, no separate CPU.

All very confusing, but almost definitely different systems.

Cheers.
Paul.

You are of course right. Now I've got no idea what is what. Very confusing as you say.

Keen to know that B&G say if they ever get back to you.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by svquintana

Hi Joe. Thanks very much for your reply.

First off, how was chicago marine electronics to deal with? That's where I'm getting my pricing and information from too. The B&G rep says that my local B&G retailer isn't authorized to sell the h5000 stuff, something about not having qualified support staff... Sounds odd, but there you go.

Thanks also for the Hercules information. We're also looking for that feature, and did not know we had to upgrade from the hydra CPU to get it.

I'm also a big fan of laptop navigation, but the B&G software (especially sailsteer) is convincing. This is our "retirement" boat, so we also decided on the Zeus3 plotter, and perhaps a little vulcan 5 at the helm. So many bells and whistles going on this boat, I don't even recognize myself any more. I've always lived by the mantra of KISS.

Will the graphic display show charts too? I don't see it mentioned on their website.

Are you happy with the screen size of the 9? We had planned to use the 12, but it's a bit tight in the nav station, and I may benefit from a slightly smaller display.

I'm headed to Fl on Friday, and hope to stop at west marine and look at the displays. So far, we've not seen any of this stuff in real life.

I'd look forward to hearing a report on the performance of the pilot on wind mode, once you get the mhu installed, if you're so inclined.


As an aside. We like the voyager very much, as it's one of the first cats we'd ever been aboard, in georgetown bahamas back in 2001, it brings back special memories.

Cheers.
Paul.

Chicago Marine Electronics has been very good. One of the main reasons I went with B&G instead of NKE was how I perceived support would be. Achillefs is a level 3 (H5000 & WTP3) B&G dealer. This level of equipment is not available at, say, West Marine. I could not ask for better support than I've received from Achillefs.

Like you, this is our retirement boat, and like you, we wanted to do it once.

The graphic display does not show charts. It does show instruments, etc.. We have our plotter, graphic display, and ap controller mounted at the helm. With ap remote, ap controller, and the Zeus, we a bit redundant on autopilot controls. Oh well.... We would have preferred the Zeus3 12, but didn't have the space. I find the Zeus 9 to be adequate for two displays (charts/radar, charts/depth, etc) but crowded for three. For charts only, it's fine.

West Marine should have the Zeus3 9 and 12 on display. They will not have the H5000 graphic display.

And to clarify a couple of things:

There are two systems here, the H5000 Hercules and the H5000 Autopilot. Neither necessarily requires the other. Each has two components, a CPU and an interface. In the case of the H5000 Hercules (or Hydra or Performance) you get the cpu and a graphic display that interfaces with the cpu. Think of it as a keyboard and screen on a laptop. The H5000 autopilot is the same, a cpu and a controller. Neither of these has a navigation program. For that you need a plotter or laptop/PC.

Our old package was similar in configuration. There was a WH autopilot processor and a box with switches to control it. There were Raymarine/Autohelm instruments and MFDs (H5000 cpu/display equivalent) and a laptop for navigation. For that matter, the ComNav setup on our troller was similar, ap, instruments, laptop for nav.

Cheers,

[GRIT]

Hi Joe.

You're saying I can have an H5000 autopilot computer, and controller, run the drive, and give me all of the features of a normal autopilot, but I need the H5000 Hercules cpu to sail with the true wind? Is that the only reason one needs the cpu for the autopilot?

Can I assume you lose much of the performance without the CPU? Judging by the wiring diagram, it looks like the cpu probably/possibly/maybe does most of the steering calculations, if you're steering by anything but the compass (AWA, or TWA).

Did you get "educated" by Chicago marine, or by B&G? You seem to know of what you speak. Would you recommend I talk to Chicago Marine, and if so, do you have "a guy" you'd recommend?

Our old raymarine had a "brain", linear drive, compass/gyro and a control head. The instruments were separate and our navigation was by laptop, or, gasp, PAPER CHARTS!

So I'm still puzzled as to why a CPU is used in addition to the autopilot computer. Just extra features?

Thanks again.
Paul.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by svquintana

Hi Joe.

You're saying I can have an H5000 autopilot computer, and controller, run the drive, and give me all of the features of a normal autopilot, but I need the H5000 Hercules cpu to sail with the true wind? Is that the only reason one needs the cpu for the autopilot?

Can I assume you lose much of the performance without the CPU? Judging by the wiring diagram, it looks like the cpu probably/possibly/maybe does most of the steering calculations, if you're steering by anything but the compass (AWA, or TWA).

Did you get "educated" by Chicago marine, or by B&G? You seem to know of what you speak. Would you recommend I talk to Chicago Marine, and if so, do you have "a guy" you'd recommend?

Our old raymarine had a "brain", linear drive, compass/gyro and a control head. The instruments were separate and our navigation was by laptop, or, gasp, PAPER CHARTS!

So I'm still puzzled as to why a CPU is used in addition to the autopilot computer. Just extra features?

Thanks again.
Paul.

I went through this as well. I believe that if you want true wind steering, you'll need the H5000 Hercules CPU and the H5000 AP CPU. This gets you true wind steering and some very sophisticated software to take instrument/sensor input and steer the boat as well as give sailing information. For instance, the 213MHU and speed sensor go directly to the H5000 CPU. If you don't need/want those features, you don't need the H5000. We're not young, have a "fast" boat, and wanted an AP that would reduce the amount of fatigue if we encountered extended bad weather and steer reliably downwind in surfing conditions on ocean passages. Steering to true wind angles is supposed to help on those conditions.

Achillefs Koukas is the "guy" at Chicago Marine Electronics, the only guy, and he's good. He is a level 3 tech/dealer for B&G. There aren't many at this level. He gets my recommendation. He's done a lot of these installations and has his opinions on how it should be done, so be careful to listen. I think Achillefs is in Florida doing an installation, but he'll have his cell phone with him. He is Greek and does have a bit of an accent.

Cheers,

[GRIT]

Thanks for all that Joe. I think we're on the same page, and for similar reasons. I'll follow your advice, and listen to Achillefs Koukas. I happen to be on my way to Florida now, so perhaps he'll be on the same coast (Gulf), and I can meet him to ask some questions.

I've been reading the operator's manual this afternoon, and I've got a much better handle on what the H5000 systems do, now. We'll stick with the same system you've got.

Thanks for your help.

Paul.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by svquintana

Our old raymarine had a "brain", linear drive, compass/gyro and a control head. The instruments were separate and our navigation was by laptop, or, gasp, PAPER CHARTS!

So I'm still puzzled as to why a CPU is used in addition to the autopilot computer. Just extra features?

Primary reason is earning money. Adding another component allows to sell the system for more money. These CPUs may offer special racing functionality (like collecting polars) but cost a fortune.
It seems once one decides for the H5000 systems one is stuck with H5000 specfic components, like non-standard sensors. The standard B&G devices on the other hand are standard N2K devices, which you can mix & match with any other N2K manufacturer.


If all you want is decent downwind steering performance (using AWA or TWA at your choice) the normal B&G systems will easily make you happy in all conditions.
If you want / need additional racing features it may be worth to go for the H5000.

I don't know anything about racing so these are not for me. Heck, I haven't even bothered to look up wthat these sailsteer indicators are that my normal B&G Triton 2 offer.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by svquintana

Thanks for all that Joe. I think we're on the same page, and for similar reasons. I'll follow your advice, and listen to Achillefs Koukas. I happen to be on my way to Florida now, so perhaps he'll be on the same coast (Gulf), and I can meet him to ask some questions.

I've been reading the operator's manual this afternoon, and I've got a much better handle on what the H5000 systems do, now. We'll stick with the same system you've got.

Thanks for your help.

Paul.

I spent a _lot_ of time reading the installation and operating manuals before pulling the trigger. It's easy to get off track if you're not careful.

We're headed back to Antigua tomorrow via Denver and Miami. Hopefully the weather won't be an issue.

Feel free to send a pm if you have more questions.

Cheers,

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by jdazey

I spent a _lot_ of time reading the installation and operating manuals before pulling the trigger. It's easy to get off track if you're not careful.

mee to

[GRIT]

Good luck on your trip.

Paul.

[sailing_gal]

I recently installed all new B&G on my sailboat. I was out trying to finish up configurations yesterday, and I cannot seem to get the Triton 2 NAC3 AP to recognize that I am a sailboat and cannot get it to give me the wind steering options or the ability to tack using the AP. I cannot seem to find where in the config system to enter it. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. When I go to the configuration settings and look at boat type, it is only giving me 2 options, displacement and planing, it does not give me the Sail option, the Sail option is not lit up to select.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sailing_gal

I recently installed all new B&G on my sailboat. I was out trying to finish up configurations yesterday, and I cannot seem to get the Triton 2 NAC3 AP to recognize that I am a sailboat and cannot get it to give me the wind steering options or the ability to tack using the AP. I cannot seem to find where in the config system to enter it. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. When I go to the configuration settings and look at boat type, it is only giving me 2 options, displacement and planing, it does not give me the Sail option, the Sail option is not lit up to select.

I think I’ve seen that behavior once. Try to reset the AP config so you can start over from factory settings.

[sailing_gal]

Already tried that multiple times, still cannot get Sail option to light up.