asking price VS realistic price.

[mutant]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Good advice. But the real trick is finding an 'in demand' boat in great shape with a knowledgeable and meticulous owner. As a rule of thumb is the owner is living aboard or using it on a regular basis, like at least every week, it will most likely have all, or at least most, stuff working.

As several posters have noted the boats with a soft price often have been for sale for some time and are showing the results of neglect. Often times the owner has not used the boat for months, or even years. Maybe the owner is dead and it is an estate sale. Sure you can wait around on these boats and watch the price drop. Problem is that as a rule the more the price drops the condition of the boat also drops.

There are people who walk the docks and make offers on boats out of the blue at absurdly low prices hoping to find deals. I have had a couple of offers out of the blue on my boat at what I would call half of what it is worth; maybe less. All this when the boat was not listed and not for sale.

Another huge consideration is opportunity cost. It takes time, effort, and money to check out boats that are, or maybe for sale. Time you could have been sailing off into the sunset if you had simply spent the extra money right now to buy a boat ready to sail.

That is true for some. But are have planning ahead. So we could buy a boat that is in shape but outdated. So we could ourselves upgrade with our preferences. Interior and technology. We also have the time to check up the best options for us. That's why I did not get all the pricing to make sense. I copared two boats. Identical in model and year. But in different country's. And the prising made no sense... The cheapest was ready to sail and outfitted. The other was probably not seaworthy... Vat not included in both. So obviously the "crappy" one was "wrong" priced

[Gerrit Coetzee]

[QUOTE=mutant;2905293]long time lurking. First post.

It might be more helpfull if you state which vessel you are considering and what you plan paying.

Not sure if this allowed here, but I do have 2 boats up for sale in USVI. One Cat and one power boat.

[Stu Jackson]

One of the few things usually not discussed with these types of questions is what it is like from the other side, the sellers. Since they have sold the boat, they rarely show up on boating forums, so what we're left with are the recurring questions like this one.


We owned our 1981 Catalina 25 for 13 years, purchased in 1987, used regularly, great condition, showed well, clean, etc.. We bought this larger boat in 1998.


We advertised the C25 in Latitude 38, and a nice couple made an offer, we took them on a daysail, they were happy, although the wife was running about more than their two 4 & 5 year old kids. She kept saying how many rules she'd have to come up with to control the kids on the boat. I suggested she keep it simple: One hand for the boat and please do what I ask you to do promptly and ask any questions later. Worked for my kids.


Few days later we hauled the boat and there were some paint blisters on the keel, which our surveyor said were nothing, he popped one, showed her it was a metal keel (I forget whether lead or iron) and said not an issue.


She freaked out. Blisters, blisters, blisters... The surveyor showed her. Her husband agreed. She huffed off. Sale ended.


So I put a For Sale sign on the bow and two days later I got a call, showed the boat to Mike, who looked around said his number, we split the difference, done. Over the years I'd see him out on our old boat or his other Etchells 22 on the Oakland Estuary and we'd stop and chat.


Mike understood, from just talking to me, that I loved the boat, kept her in fine shape and why I was selling.


Many times it's a two way street.


Just a different way to say what many others have said.


When we bought this boat I spent an hour and a half all over it, the PO said "You sure you're not a broker? You seem to know a lot about this boat." I told him we'd been looking for a year for ONLY this boat and I knew from looking and reading what to look for. We also essentially split the difference on his price and my offer.


My experience is that it possible that if one is looking for a 34 foot boat that there are so many a purchaser may not get to know enough about the myriad of models that they get off on tangents. I found that figuring out what boat I really wanted FIRST was very helpful in our searching. Might have taken longer, but then I got the boat I wanted, not just something else for a good ? price. Did that for all three we've bought.

[1affiah]

A couple of my pet peeves in selling boats is the jacka$$ that,SIGHT UNSEEN, asks "What is my best price?" I'm not including the obvious craigslist scammers or tire kickers, it is the ones who don't have any questions about the equipment, or condition, sails, inventory, engine hours, electronics, or anything relative to the value of the boat, they just claim to want my BEST PRICE without looking at the boat themselves. There is then usually some comment about them finding a better deal.

The other was a guy, after a conversation with a time to meet, and directions to the boat, casually mentions that "I probably wouldn't be able to take he and his family out for an afternoon sail?", I agreed and said No. He then got all huffy and said that "Every broker he had talked to would do that". Sounds like a great way to have a free vacation, looking at boats!

If you are determined to find the best deal, you need to personally kick the tires and come prepared to buy.

[Stu Jackson]

Another way to save a TON of $$$:


Find a boat with an ACTIVE owners association, preferably one with a searchable website (instead of a Google or Yahoo "group").


Why?


You won't have to reinvent the wheel. Owners share what's worked and what hasn't. Often you'll find yourself doing a "Why didn't I think of that?"


Some stuff is boat-specific. Associations really help with that. Others also have generic boat stuff like electrical and plumbing and engine systems.


Why spend your own $$ to try to reinvent what others have already solved?

[MainMan]

Originally Posted by mutant

thank you so much for many good feedbacks. Does anyone have experience that the boat is not in the condition that has been informed when you go to look at it? Should one automatically think that I should get this boat for just over half the query price? Or are those boats where "the seller is motivated" more "correctly" priced. I know there is a difference between countries here. If one prizes "wrong" one does not get response whatsoever ...

Hello Mutant,
have a look at youtube series by Nick O'Reilly at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgsJb-EfmN8

He has done several earlier vids about buying cats. Remember that they are selling more catamarans in Europe and USA now than Momo's so you are not in a buyers market but that's no reason you cannot get a fair price.
Of course there are plenty of 'project' cats out there and the same rule applies to them as does in respect of Mono's. The 'project' boats will keep you land bound and very poor for a long time.
Have fun!

[nightowle]

Originally Posted by 1affiah

A couple of my pet peeves in selling boats is the jacka$$ that,SIGHT UNSEEN, asks "What is my best price?" I'm not including the obvious craigslist scammers or tire kickers, it is the ones who don't have any questions about the equipment, or condition, sails, inventory, engine hours, electronics, or anything relative to the value of the boat, they just claim to want my BEST PRICE without looking at the boat themselves. There is then usually some comment about them finding a better deal.

The other was a guy, after a conversation with a time to meet, and directions to the boat, casually mentions that "I probably wouldn't be able to take he and his family out for an afternoon sail?", I agreed and said No. He then got all huffy and said that "Every broker he had talked to would do that". Sounds like a great way to have a free vacation, looking at boats!

If you are determined to find the best deal, you need to personally kick the tires and come prepared to buy.

Good one! I'm a broker and don't take anyone that shows up out for a sail and neither does any other broker I know. You get your sail during the sea trial which occurs after an earnest money deposit and offer or counter offers have been accepted. As a seller, would you want me taking your boat out frequently to show it off to any tire kicker? It's not a car lot. A buyer that asks for this has probably never bought a boat before or was indulged by a too kind owner/seller. Maybe a buyer like this asks to have a sleep over at houses they peruse and act as though they are sincere buyers.

[mutant]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Another way to save a TON of $$$:


Find a boat with an ACTIVE owners association, preferably one with a searchable website (instead of a Google or Yahoo "group").


Why?




You won't have to reinvent the wheel. Owners share what's worked and what hasn't. Often you'll find yourself doing a "Why didn't I think of that?"


Some stuff is boat-specific. Associations really help with that. Others also have generic boat stuff like electrical and plumbing and engine systems.


Why spend your own $$ to try to reinvent what others have already solved?

THAT is really a good advice. Is there other places than FB (I have already subscribed to a couple FB groups)
On CF I have to filter out a few things that is irrelevant to me...

[mutant]

Originally Posted by MainMan

Hello Mutant,
have a look at youtube series by Nick O'Reilly at

He has done several earlier vids about buying cats. Remember that they are selling more catamarans in Europe and USA now than Momo's so you are not in a buyers market but that's no reason you cannot get a fair price.
Of course there are plenty of 'project' cats out there and the same rule applies to them as does in respect of Mono's. The 'project' boats will keep you land bound and very poor for a long time.
Have fun!

HI! That was an informative yt channel. I subscribed. I am located in European but I will travel for a great or "the perfect boat" (for us). And willing to pay the price. I am even considering buying a brand new one just to get the guaranteed price. And the garanti. But if I travel from Europe to Caribbean to buy a boat. And when I get there it is nothing that is promised ( old picture, wrong picture, or "boat just sold but we just got in a better one") do I get a refund at the planeticket. Just kidding. But I get an impression that it's OK the lure on price and pictures and text. Look and haggle... Someplace it's culture and expected. ( I buy your wife for 9 camel's. - oh, 9 camel's are to mutch for my wife. I give you a goat to take here). But.... That will give the honest a bad reputations...

[JPA Cate]

Good day, mutant:

In one of your early posts, you asked whether boats would be inaccurately represented. The answer is yes. That makes your on the fence waiting to quickly take advantage of an apparently good price a little difficult. When we were looking for this boat, none of the boats we were attracted to go look at were in the kind of condition that was claimed for them. So, do not even consider making an offer on a boat sight unseen.

Another issue of which you may not be aware is that about 45' or so in overall length, monohulls become pretty stable, although of course, they still heel, and some of them are boats even an aspiring multihuller could appreciate. If you are already a confirmed multihuller, disregard this paragraph.


Good luck with your search, I hope you find the boat that makes your heart sing.

Ann

[Red Sky]

Mutant, In the price range you’re looking, have you considered interviewing and engaging a buyers broker? It costs you nothing and they can do a lot of the leg work for you.

[Fore and Aft]

Thanks Ann, although some multihullers might choke on your statement. A modern 45 foot+ monohull can be huge inside. It’s just the draft that is the issue.
1affiah I have two clients that make offers like that all the time, not just on boats. One makes a living doing it and the other guy supplements his pension very nicely. All you need is to find that owner who just wants it gone and NOW and a deals done. I have surveyed at least 5 boats for one of these clients.
Cheers

[mutant]

Originally Posted by Red Sky

Mutant, In the price range you’re looking, have you considered interviewing and engaging a buyers broker? It costs you nothing and they can do a lot of the leg work for you.

We spoke to a couple of brokers at La grande motte. But it is still to early for us. (3-5 years + - ) We are still in the prosess where we define our needs. (Age, lenght, brand, model, gear asf...) But if i can look for realistic pris 5-15 % lover. There are other opportunitys ... But a broker in the future is no unrealistic.

[Nahbrown]

I can only give you our experience as an example.

The seller was asking 399k usd. We offered 325. The survey revealed there was a lot to be done to the boat such as replacing the SD 50 sail drives. We asked for 32,000 of sellers money at closing. He agreed to this effectively making the price 293,000.

My takeaway, make your offer, give the seller the option to say yes or no. Offending a seller is overstated in my opinion. Its a business transaction.

[Kenomac]

Our asking price IS the realistic price. On ebay or on yachtworld.