asking price VS realistic price.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Being a bit vain, I am pleased to see that I'm not just wrong but totally wrong... I kinda like that! Not everyone is capable of such perfection.



But I can't help wondering how ken avoids the expenses that i mention, for they do affect many of us mortals and our boats.



Jim

Hate to burst your bubble but your totally right.

[sailorboy1]

Some of you must be very concerned to keep providing so much food.

[a64pilot]

Even if a boat is totally paid for, has free Insurence and free storage and requires no upkeep or maintenance, it still loses value as it ages.
Then the financial people will tell you having your money locked up in a depreciating asset costs you more money too.

However we have all seen boats that were just simply overpriced and don’t sell, yet continue to soak up assets from the owner, cause that’s what boats do.

Usually it seems most finally accept it’s not worth what they had hoped and they cut bait and sell, but many times they don’t. That is why I think we all see boats sitting in Marina’s rotting away.

It’s not just boats either, the exact same thing happens with airplanes, and I assume most other luxury things

[GordMay]

University of Chicago economist Richard Thaler has studied the endowment effect, which leads us to place an irrationally high value on our possessions.
In an experiment conducted by Thaler, Kahneman, and Knetsch, half the participants were given a mug, and then asked how much they would sell it for.
The average answer was $5.78.
The rest of the group said they would spend, on average, $2.21 for the same mug.
This flew in the face of classic economic theory, which says that at a given time and among a certain population, an item has a market value that does not depend on whether one owns it or not.
Thaler won the 2017 Nobel Prize in Economics.
The sunk-cost fallacy will also tend to cause owners to overvalue their possessions.

[piloto]

Originally Posted by mutant

thank you so much for many good feedbacks. Does anyone have experience that the boat is not in the condition that has been informed when you go to look at it? Should one automatically think that I should get this boat for just over half the query price? Or are those boats where "the seller is motivated" more "correctly" priced. I know there is a difference between countries here. If one prizes "wrong" one does not get response whatsoever ...

When you ask the seller the condition of the boat and if there are any issues or work needed and he or she gives you an honest answer, it will be reflected in the condition you see the boat in when you go to look at it. The gap between the description and reality will likely be as narrow or wide as the price difference. If it is clean and seaworthy as described, it could be very well worth the price the seller is asking (if it is fairly priced). If there are discrepancies, they will likely be reflected in the negotiations.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by GordMay

University of Chicago economist Richard Thaler has studied the endowment effect, which leads us to place an irrationally high value on our possessions.
In an experiment conducted by Thaler, Kahneman, and Knetsch, half the participants were given a mug, and then asked how much they would sell it for.
The average answer was $5.78.
The rest of the group said they would spend, on average, $2.21 for the same mug.
This flew in the face of classic economic theory, which says that at a given time and among a certain population, an item has a market value that does not depend on whether one owns it or not.
Thaler won the 2017 Nobel Prize in Economics.
The sunk-cost fallacy will also tend to cause owners to overvalue their possessions.

Like I said in a previous post, this was covered in a less academic fashion by Sanford & Son: "We buy junk. We sell antiques."

[Sailor_Al]

Are there any recommendations for finding the sale price, other then a Buyer Broker?

[mutant]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Al

Are there any recommendations for finding the sale price, other then a Buyer Broker?

I' not 100& sure how that works but in the commentary field i that YT video i postet there are some data. And he promised to post regulary

[Skip JayR]

Originally Posted by mutant

I am even considering buying a brand new one just to get the guaranteed price. And the garanti.

If one has "plenty of money", not caring about every 100 or 1000 Dollar, then I can understand the situation of such "lucky people" in wealthyness. But the reality is different as you can see with the majority of smaller boats in the harbours.

Maybe I get it wrong, mutant. Looking rationally at the calculations for buying a new boat from the shipyard, I don't think its worth economically. The market is destroyed, since years. When your "brand new boat" is leaving the production halls, the value drops on that day at least 30-40%. If one offers a new cat of 300KUS$ in the "used boats market" 6 months after he bought it, he'd might just expect 200KUS$ to get back. That's the reality nowadays.

Not to forget, that you had to earn the 300k$ first, so its "net" (after paying tax). In reality, you'd have to calculate 400-500k$ of working time you had to invest first, before having available such bigger sum on your private bank account.

For any case, you'd have to keep in mind (as worst case scenario) to sell your boat again quickly, e.g. brought up by unexpected health issues, accident, family tragedies, divorce or whatever reason comes along in your life. (Rec.: I had cancer with 25 and this changed my whole life perspective within just one week. So not just talking here theoretically.)

About Guarantee: How big are the chances, that the brand new boat must be brought back into the ship yard ? - Very little I'd say. Only if there would be a production failure within the super structure, or in the electric system, then such bigger impact onto your daily sailing life might require the delivery back. Mostly there are only smaller repairs required during the guarantee time.
If you'd buy with your budget (for a brand new boat) a "used one", e.g. paying 200KUS$, you'd still have 100KUS$ in reserve for any case of bigger repairs of hidden damages. Such rarely to be expected in boats of that prize range as you will buy it only with a detailed survey report.

The only argument for me personally to buy a new boat: I can sit together with the naval architect, the rigger, sails maker, interieur designer to get an individual designed boat. But this will also take huge time, lots of meetings, sitting together ... a process of at least 2-3 years probably. Economically I'd calculate this as "add-on" upon the sales prize. - That time you also can invest to search for a used boat, which gives you also a good learning curve about different boat types and solutions ... and then after owning one, re-design it step-by-step over years which gives you the chance to learn and become the master on your own for your boat. Multihulls become better over the time, so I learn from other multihull owners. Its a steadily process of developing. From decade to decade. E.g. actually we see the trend that steel rigs are being replaced by synthetic rigs. Just makes lots of sense.

Good examples for my approach are 2 YT channels which document such process of two multihulls as "live-a-board cruisers":
- Onboard Live Style - Couple with daughter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb8kUPkJMx4

- Tula's Endless Summer - Young couple ona sportive Crowther Cat
https://www.youtube.com/user/FIKITEnSUP

Pls understand my comment not as critics, just like to share my own thoughts. Personally I don't feel myself as a boat (re-)builder. On my own I am a sailor, and I am happy that professional marine services can give the support to keep a boat in good shape, or modernize it with bigger updates. I like to focus on smaller repairs/updates doing by myself. :-)

[Skip JayR]

Originally Posted by GordMay

University of Chicago economist Richard Thaler has studied the endowment effect, which leads us to place an irrationally high value on our possessions.
In an experiment conducted by Thaler, Kahneman, and Knetsch, half the participants were given a mug, and then asked how much they would sell it for.
The average answer was $5.78.
The rest of the group said they would spend, on average, $2.21 for the same mug.
This flew in the face of classic economic theory, which says that at a given time and among a certain population, an item has a market value that does not depend on whether one owns it or not.
Thaler won the 2017 Nobel Prize in Economics.
The sunk-cost fallacy will also tend to cause owners to overvalue their possessions.

Tks for sharing. Gives me the perfect argument for my negotiations against any boat owner: "Sorry, Sir. Can't pay you the 80KUS$ as demanded, as statistically being proofed by a Nobel Prize winner you overestimate your own possession with an irrational high value. Therefor I can offer you only 30kUS$."

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Skip JayR

Tks for sharing. Gives me the perfect argument for my negotiations against any boat owner: "Sorry, Sir. Can't pay you the 80KUS$ as demanded, as statistically being proofed by a Nobel Prize winner you overestimate your own possession with an irrational high value. Therefor I can offer you only 30kUS$."

That probably won't work, but you're halfway there if you remember it when you go to sell, and you'll probably be able to sell faster...