asking price VS realistic price.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Kenomac DOES know that all three bottom feeders have not yet purchased anything after 8 months, since all three continue to pester his broker with nonsense.... while he continues to enjoy Italy, Croatia, Montenegro and now Greece on €15 euros per day.

Cheers

Ken

While it is easy to grin about guys who claim low cruising costs I have literally gone months not spending a penny while cruising. True I did spend money provisioning but I often wind up in spots where there are no marinas or stores; so it is not a case of me being thrifty, rather no place to spend money. I have a great solar array and house bank to charge and run things up. I have a solar oven which decreases propane usage, and often can catch fish or lobster.

If Kenomac's boats is well set up for the type of cruising I do fifteen euros a day kinda seems high. On the other hand I have seen bargain boats who's skipper buys ice every day cuz no fridge or solar to run it, no or little storage for water, and a host of other things the boat lacks to make living easy and cheap.

How many times has 'the most expensive thing to buy is a cheap boat' been posted here.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

It's never a mistake to make a lowball offer.

yes there is

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by tomfl

The other side of the coin is the opportunity cost of waiting to buy. As Kenomac noted he is cruising and the lowball buyers are still living on dirt.

I know there are folks who spend lots of time looking for bargains; and sometimes they find them. The question for some folks is would you rather be looking for bargains or sailing away into the sunset.

And the other side of the other side is the seller's opportunity cost. Owning a boat costs a lot. Owning two boats, one with a loan, costs even more. Rationalizing that we are using one of them, so its costs don't really count is just that, rationalizing.

[mutant]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Mutant:

I wonder why you would give ANY credence to the clip you posted? But perhaps your comment was meant sardonically :-)?

Determining the listing price for a boat is in many ways different from determining the listing price for real estate. The fact that many boat brokers seek to EMULATE real estate practices should not be permitted to lead you astray. The statistics boat brokers have to work with are not NEARLY as reliable as those that obtain in the real estate market. As someone said, that has to do with the way RE is taxed, and it also has to do with how title to RE is recorded ("tinglyst" I imagine you say in Swedish)

We are also seing a separation of the "total" market into a market for monohulls and a market for catamarans. In the former the prices are falling quite drastically due to changes in taste, generally, resulting in an "oversupply" subject to considerable seasonal variation, but also due to the increase in prices in the RE market being driven ever higher by demographics (incease in demand outstripping supply due, essentially, to overpopulation of man's ecological niche). This permits retirees to "cash in" on their shoreside dwellings and acquire "retirement boats". But because few of these people are really sailors, they tend to opt for "seagoing condos", i.e. catamarans. And, of course, for the retiring wives (who make the ultimate decision), catamarans don't have that realy, realy scary propensity to heel as soon as you cast off ;-) In consequence catamarans hold their prices better than monohulls at this juncture. But the demand for catamarans is fashion-driven, so this, too, shall pass.

The best I can suggest for you, since you are still "three years out", so you say, is that you establish YOUR OWN database of listing prices derived from actual advertisements you find on HolyMotherNet, and from conversations with sellers and their brokers in your own neckathewoods.

IMO to bid more than 60% of listing price for a "pre-owned" boat is to kick sand in the face of financial fortune or, if you are into oriental philosophy, in the face of Lakshmi :-)

The clip you gave us is, IMO, amusing, and can be safely disregarded.

Held og lykke med dit køb når det kommer :-)

TrentePieds

HI again I don't give that clip eny credence other that he is saying that the number are as good as the broker that put it in there. But I like the PDF and if that comes regularly I will have a lot more number (and trends) we also say "tinglyst" in Norwegian and that is a problem wit those numbers not being reliable. But... It's an indication. I see some diversity in asking price and sold price. And maybe I already see a trend. To early to say. In October we will go to Croatia and rent a catamaran and probably make contact with Som of the brokers down there. Knowledge is power. So it is a start
Approppos ferie. Fantastisk flott land Danmark. I dag er vi i Keteminde. Dejlig å være norsk i Danmark

Skål

[Jim Cate]

Note that Ken waxes eloquent bout his scumbag lowballers loosing out on cruising time, but fails to mention the maintenance costs he incurs in keeping the boat and the lost income from not being able to invest the proceeds from selling the boat, or the fact that his boat suffers depreciation simply by getting older as it languishes (especially if maintained at a 15 euro per day level!)

He, of course, gets to evaluate these factors in any way that he wishes, but it isn't as one sided as he presents the case IMO.

Jim

[a64pilot]

I bought my boat for I believe 74% of asking, the seller had done some cosmetic work, new bottom job, had the teak redone and a few other things, through sold boat data we knew he was asking what he paid.
I talked to my Broker and said will it tick him off if I offer X, cause I thought it would, but it was a number that I was willing to write a check for. She said she didn’t think so, you never know until you try. She actually said don’t be surprised if he takes it. I thought she was joking, I knew what IP’s sold for and was really just wanting to open talks at a good place was all.
Well I threw it out there, and he accepted it, with the caveat of as is , where is, meaning he wouldn’t negotiate at all based on anything found in the survey.
Well that made me really paranoid cause I was sure that meant there was some serious major critical hidden flaw, 6 yrs later I can say I don’t think there was.
He had had it on the market I guess for some time, in a nice expensive Marina, accumulating expenses monthly to the tune of likely at least $1,000 a month, not counting Insurence in South Fl during hurricane season etc.
He had it sold once or twice then after the survey they started trying to drop the price based on needing new batteries, etc. etc, which it did, but I sense he was tired of that game and just wanted the monthly bleeding of expenses to stop, so he sold at a considerable loss.

It’s been a good boat, and I got it at a very good price.
People seem to think their boat is special, or that they spent $10,000 on it so it must be worth that much more, right?
No, that 10 grand maintained it’s value, but likely didn’t increase it at all. Eventually they come to realize the boat isn’t worth what they wanted it to be worth, and all that money spent, is gone.

[sailorboy1]

I paid 96% of the asking price for my boat. Even at that it was the second lowest listed price for the model in the world. The lowest being way low due to being a damaged bank repo.

These big discounts just show brokers and owners don’t price their boat fair to start with and instead pay expenses till they finally see the light.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

These big discounts just show brokers and owners don’t price their boat fair to start with and instead pay expenses till they finally see the light.

I think your exactly right.
I’ve only sold three houses in my life, I never bought one until I was older, but all three sold fast. It’s my belief that if priced realistically, an item sells quickly but if it doesn’t sell quickly it seems to get some kind of stigma attached to it, people wonder what’s wrong with it, why hasn’t it sold.
But I sold my airplane without even advertising it, sold my little dive boat quickly at asking price, sold my motorcycles quickly, truck etc getting ready to go cruising.
The airplane was known in the off airport world and I priced the bikes and truck etc realistically.

[sailorboy1]

I believe my boat is most valuable sunk and totaled with the insurance agreed price. I bet I’m in the vast majority.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I believe my boat is most valuable sunk and totaled with the insurance agreed price. I bet I’m in the vast majority.

Means you have it insured correctly.
By the time the Broker gets theirs and everyone else involved gets their cut, plus costs getting it ready, positioned in a nice Marina, cause I believe a boat sells better that way, and all other expenses are paid, what is left over isn’t as much as you would want.

But then we knew going in that it wasn’t a good investment didn’t we?

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I believe my boat is most valuable sunk and totaled with the insurance agreed price. I bet I’m in the vast majority.

Yes, I bet you are.


Hole in the water...

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Paul L

And the other side of the other side is the seller's opportunity cost. Owning a boat costs a lot. Owning two boats, one with a loan, costs even more. Rationalizing that we are using one of them, so its costs don't really count is just that, rationalizing.

Wrong

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Note that Ken waxes eloquent bout his scumbag lowballers loosing out on cruising time, but fails to mention the maintenance costs he incurs in keeping the boat and the lost income from not being able to invest the proceeds from selling the boat, or the fact that his boat suffers depreciation simply by getting older as it languishes (especially if maintained at a 15 euro per day level!)

He, of course, gets to evaluate these factors in any way that he wishes, but it isn't as one sided as he presents the case IMO.

Jim

Totally wrong

Originally Posted by tomfl

While it is easy to grin about guys who claim low cruising costs I have literally gone months not spending a penny while cruising. True I did spend money provisioning but I often wind up in spots where there are no marinas or stores; so it is not a case of me being thrifty, rather no place to spend money. I have a great solar array and house bank to charge and run things up. I have a solar oven which decreases propane usage, and often can catch fish or lobster.

If Kenomac's boats is well set up for the type of cruising I do fifteen euros a day kinda seems high. On the other hand I have seen bargain boats who's skipper buys ice every day cuz no fridge or solar to run it, no or little storage for water, and a host of other things the boat lacks to make living easy and cheap.

How many times has 'the most expensive thing to buy is a cheap boat' been posted here.

Spot on

[Paul L]

Well keno your longer posts are rationalizations, but the succinct ones are just denial. Hope you find an agreeable buyer soon.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Wrong


Totally wrong


Spot on

Been on the market for over a year so either overpriced or so damn spectacular that people don’t feel worthy of ownership.[emoji38]

[Jim Cate]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Note that Ken waxes eloquent bout his scumbag lowballers loosing out on cruising time, but fails to mention the maintenance costs he incurs in keeping the boat and the lost income from not being able to invest the proceeds from selling the boat, or the fact that his boat suffers depreciation simply by getting older as it languishes (especially if maintained at a 15 euro per day level!)

He, of course, gets to evaluate these factors in any way that he wishes, but it isn't as one sided as he presents the case IMO.

Jim
Totally wrong

Being a bit vain, I am pleased to see that I'm not just wrong but totally wrong... I kinda like that! Not everyone is capable of such perfection.

But I can't help wondering how ken avoids the expenses that i mention, for they do affect many of us mortals and our boats.

Jim