Are Dagger Boards Worth it?

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I had a pretty hard look at foils for foil assist on my boat. My boat is 7200kg on an average day and 48' and sails pretty well as is, however more must be better right.

Accounting for your size, your boat is roughly similar to my current one in terms of weight which also cannot use foils. It is too heavy. It should be possible to have a boat that size that is much lighter, eg 4000kg.

It maybe slower in light wind from extra drag, but in rough weather would be more comfortable.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by macieknan

QUOTE=Dave_S;3655790]I had a pretty hard look at foils for foil assist on my boat. My boat is 7200kg on an average day and 48' and sails pretty well as is...

Awesome performance boat. Dave already made choices and sacrifices required to regularly sail into teens and I see why it was (is) tempting for him to look into foils.

Most boats with average cruising speeds in single digits would likely see a small performance hit due to additional drag instead.

Too bad the G4 project fell off the radar after that famous wipe. Software could have solved the flight control issues and there might have been a niche of pioneers with the foiling cruising boats. Just too many safety issues i suppose, but one can always dream..[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Accounting for your size, your boat is roughly similar to my current one in terms of weight which also cannot use foils. It is too heavy. It should be possible to have a boat that size that is much lighter, eg 4000kg.

It maybe slower in light wind from extra drag, but in rough weather would be more comfortable.

I don't believe cruising boats are going to fly anytime soon, like your saying they need to loose a lot of weight to get there and a 4,000kg, 48' cat will be pretty low on features. A lot more race boat than a cruiser, however it would be nice to see them get started like the G4 and see how far development could go.

It is early days in development, listening to discussions on specialist forums it seems there is a lot of disagreement on just how it can be used so there must be lots more to learn. (disappointingly it was working a long time ago but it didn't get the momentum it should have back then - where might we be now)

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Awesome performance boat. Dave already made choices and sacrifices required to regularly sail into teens and I see why it was (is) tempting for him to look into foils.



Most boats with average cruising speeds in single digits would likely see a small performance hit due to additional drag instead.



Too bad the G4 project fell off the radar after that famous wipe. Software could have solved the flight control issues and there might have been a niche of pioneers with the foiling cruising boats. Just too many safety issues i suppose, but one can always dream..

I don't believe cruising boats are going to fly anytime soon, like your saying they need to loose a lot of weight to get there and a 4,000kg, 48' cat will be pretty low on features. A lot more race boat than a cruiser, however it would be nice to see them get started like the G4 and see how far development could go.



It is early days in development, listening to discussions on specialist forums it seems there is a lot of disagreement on just how it can be used so there must be lots more to learn. (disappointingly it was working a long time ago but it didn't get the momentum it should have back then - where might we be now)[/QUOTE]


Lifting foils aren’t just about flying - they are also about efficiency. The 18m cat I was talking about doesn’t lift its hull with its lifting foils - they’re about reducing drag by reducing wetted surface. https://boatingnz.co.nz/boat-reviews...ill-18-5m-cat/

This design evolution seems reasonable for cruising cats, with the resulting boats not needing to be silly light (the 18m cat is 12,000kg lightship). I’m not sure how twitchy the sailing characteristics are, but I do know that they sail offshore with a full crew and keep the boat powered up for 500+ mile days (NZ - Fiji including a pit stop in Minerva in 3 days). Whether the boat can be depowered for a cruising couple is the question.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I don't believe cruising boats are going to fly anytime soon, like your saying they need to loose a lot of weight to get there and a 4,000kg, 48' cat will be pretty low on features. A lot more race boat than a cruiser, however it would be nice to see them get started like the G4 and see how far development could go.



It is early days in development, listening to discussions on specialist forums it seems there is a lot of disagreement on just how it can be used so there must be lots more to learn. (disappointingly it was working a long time ago but it didn't get the momentum it should have back then - where might we be now)

Lifting foils aren’t just about flying - they are also about efficiency. The 18m cat I was talking about doesn’t lift its hull with its lifting foils - they’re about reducing drag by reducing wetted surface. https://boatingnz.co.nz/boat-reviews...ill-18-5m-cat/

This design evolution seems reasonable for cruising cats, with the resulting boats not needing to be silly light (the 18m cat is 12,000kg lightship). I’m not sure how twitchy the sailing characteristics are, but I do know that they sail offshore with a full crew and keep the boat powered up for 500+ mile days (NZ - Fiji including a pit stop in Minerva in 3 days). Whether the boat can be depowered for a cruising couple is the question.[/QUOTE]



exactly. They can make a boat look like it has a much smaller displacement than it really does. That’s the whole idea behind them. On a boat like that G4, that means zero displacement pretty much. But on a regular boat, that can take you down 20% from your non-foiling displacement. And that’s huge.

[Tupaia]

The Eagle Class 53 is close to achieving a cruising foiler albeit very very spartan.
https://sailingmagazine.net/article-...-class-53.html
You would also have to be very very keen (rich) at $9m
Pick any two, speed, comfort, price.

[macieknan]

Few iterations down the road and maybe this could become a real foiling cruiser?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1sPEUYeS_o