Are all multi hulls so noisy and unpredictable?

[AJAL]

Hello all,

Recently delivered a Lagoon 50 over 4 days in the Med. I stand in shame, but all my experience in life is on single hulls.

Anyway, sea was rolling up to 2.5m - 3m waves....interior on this 2 year old cat supper noisy and squeaky for 1m boat, BUT bashes on inner hull from waves almost brought a halt to the movement every odd minute and certainly did not let you sleep. One small thing that bothered me is that you could not predict the movement of the boat to brace yourself. Its like a toast on the water rolling whichever the third or fourth wave chooses.

Is this normal also cats which are not Lagoons? I am told this is normal Lagoon behaviour. If it is normal, cats should only be sailed on flat seas under motor...sorry if this offends anyone.

Cheers
Joel

[LoudMusic]

The term "condomaran" is pretty accurate

Your description seems to be from a first time experience. It can be quite alarming at first, but catamarans are fairly capable at sea. Even the "production cat" group primarily consisting of Lagoon, Leopard, and Fountaine Pajot, have made quite a few ocean crossings.

HOWEVER! Catamarans are primarily designed for anchoring around islands and playing in the sun. The manufacturers have even been known to say their vessels are not designed for ocean crossings. The interiors even more-so. I walked around on a dozen or more boats at a boat show a couple years ago and the main thing I observed is all the interiors are "Ikea quality". Many of them were even falling apart right there at the show - show boats falling apart! Not encouraging to perspective buyers.

There are brands of catamaran that are more suited for crossing oceans, but you're still going to get hull and bridge slap from the waves. The jerking motion instead of the rocking motion is definitely going to be there.

[Ratel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ-svmgOxqw

"cats should only be sailed on flat seas under motor" Definitely, just look at this one struggling on a flat, calm, sunny day...

https://youtu.be/hQ-svmgOxqw

What point of sail were you on? Almost all Catamarans will slam going upwind in confused seas. A few degrees further off the wind and things will be dramatically better, your VMG will improve as well. Win-Win, smoother ride and less time to get to your destination.

Having said that, there are some catamarans that does not sail well at all. and that is fine, they are designed for a different mission. That Leopard39 in the video wasn't doing too bad though.

Having sailed on monohulls and catamarans I know which type I prefer. Give me a well designed performance cruising catamaran any day.

[Tupaia]

What you have described is the equivalent of taking your first car ride in a Trabant. Be assured there are BMW's and Ferrari's out there. Lagoons are designed for motoring around the BVI's there are grand tourers out there that are far more capable at sailing.

[tkeithlu]

Well, at least they didn't misrepresent anything when they called it a "Lagoon."

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

The term "condomaran" is pretty accurate

Your description seems to be from a first time experience. It can be quite alarming at first, but catamarans are fairly capable at sea. Even the "production cat" group primarily consisting of Lagoon, Leopard, and Fountaine Pajot, have made quite a few ocean crossings.

HOWEVER! Catamarans are primarily designed for anchoring around islands and playing in the sun. The manufacturers have even been known to say their vessels are not designed for ocean crossings. The interiors even more-so. I walked around on a dozen or more boats at a boat show a couple years ago and the main thing I observed is all the interiors are "Ikea quality". Many of them were even falling apart right there at the show - show boats falling apart! Not encouraging to perspective buyers.

There are brands of catamaran that are more suited for crossing oceans, but you're still going to get hull and bridge slap from the waves. The jerking motion instead of the rocking motion is definitely going to be there.

Give it a rest would you? For someone who has clearly decided they hate catamarans, you sure do spend a lot of time touring them at boat shows and a lot of your mindshare on bashing them.

I don't personally like to ride motorcycles, although I understand there are plenty of people who do. That means I don't go tour them or spend any time thinking about their weaknesses let alone posting about it, I just don't think about them at all really and let the people who enjoy them enjoy them. That's how normal people deal with things that they've decided aren't their cup of tea..... highly recommend you consider it.

To the OP, since you said you were doing a delivery I assume you probably drew a line from your pickup to your dropoff point and sailed (or more likely motored) that regardless of sea state or winds? If so, a catamaran isn't great for that. To be honest, no boat is great for that if the wind and sea don't agree with your course, short of large freighters. Luckily most cruisers don't cruise like that. A change in course of just a few degrees would probably have significantly alleviate the wave slapping if not eliminating it entirely.

As far as the movement, I've spent my whole life on boats from a kid growing up in Alaska to a career as a Coast Guard officer. I own a cat now and have sailed on quite a few, I never felt their movement was at all unpredictable. In fact the only boat I've experienced that on was the Coast Guard's 110' patrol boats when they have the active stabilization system on, it seemed to cut rolls off at unpredictable times. I'm not sure why you would have experienced that on a cat unless were doing the exact wrong course and had enough of the waves slapping the tunnel that it actually was stopping the boat. Again, a slight heading change makes a world of difference there.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Give it a rest would you? For someone who has clearly decided they hate catamarans, you sure do spend a lot of time touring them at boat shows and a lot of your mindshare on bashing them.

Maybe you should look at what LoudMusic is sailing.

[Captain Scott]

LOL "Lagoon"!!!!

I have sailing Leopards and FPs. My experience is, "The newer they are, the less they are. My 2002 Leopard is a solid boat, though.... it does have a low bridge deck for it's beam. I take delivery of a Seawind 1600 Passagemaker early next year. More bridgedeck clearance (less bumping/banging) and I should be able to sail a a knot below wind speed up to 22 knots. (Best point of
sail). Keep you posted.....

[ThereAndBack]

You really hit the nail on the head. All catamarans sound like a cacophony of hellish instruments when underway in all but the most perfect conditions. In the past, "perfect" was a 100 year event, but now, due to climate change, perfect days happen about twice a year, which is when catamarans will all sail. Sailing outside of those two days is not recommended.

It should be noted that sailing 2 days a year is an improvement over the old monohull designs which were NEVER used due to their small cockpits which wouldn't allow cocktail parties in any condition at all.

[SteveSadler]

Some info is missing here. What were the conditions, point of sail, was the boat loaded with toys, supplies, 500lb dingy in the davits? No boat is comfy bashing to weather. Cruisers plan their destinations around fair sailing conditions and have the patience to wait for windows. Since this is a delivery in October, known for frequent frontal passages, you got what you were paid to do. Or you could wait for a window and go when the rest of us would. My Jeanneau 49 would be squeaking and bashing too, minus the bridge slap, but noone would enjoy the trip.

[Tortuga's Lie]

Yes, the motion and sounds are very different than a monohull and it takes some getting used to. I spent a total of 3 and a half weeks on an Antares 44 sailing from Dominica to Grenada then another trip delivering the same cat from the Bahamas to the Chesapeake offshore. The boat is a very sound boat but the bridge deck slam sounded like someone hitting it with a sledge hammer, I wasn't worried about the boat but it did take some time to get used to it.
For me, I prefer the motion of the monohull and the visceral feeling of actual sailing, something that cats tend to lack. On the flip side, it's hard to beat the catamarans for living accommodations on the hook.

[BobFord]

My experience with cats- Wharram ,Crowther now Euro custom. All of my (3) had faults -Wharram was slow ,Crowther was stressed but Euro ( too expensive ) is built for the job of off shore sailing. 'Horses for courses '. All have RTW experience but the modern production cats are becoming too much like a floating caravan .They are designed for comfort at a price. I admire serious monos that perform so well but my priority is to keep the Lady happy and a cat goes a long way in that challenge!

[Captain Scott]

LOL "Lagoon"!!!!

I have sailing Leopards and FPs. My experience is, "The newer they are, the less they are. My 2002 Leopard is a solid boat, though.... it does have a low bridge deck for it's beam so that is what really contributes to the pounding. I take delivery of a Seawind 1600 Passagemaker early next year. More bridgedeck clearance and I should be able to sail a knot below wind speed up to 22 knots. (somewhere between a close reach and a broad reach) we'll see.

Keep you posted.....

[sailingchiro]

I have an old Lagoon 37. It has a pretty high bridge deck. It is true, there are points of sale she prefers. Fortunately, we don't get much bridge slap-thank goodness.
Catamarans are very easy to over power and this causes too much pressure between wind versus waves. We back the sails off or reef to decrease this pressure. Took me a long time to get used to it.

They also will hobby horse and wallow between high and low wave due to beam. But still wouldn't change for another boat. But....I would love to sail a 60' ketch sometime.
As with any boat, they have particular ways to be sailed. There is no correct answer but strict mono guys hate catamarans. Strict catamaran sailors hate mono's. I am happy sailing anything. If talking trash was a sport, some of us would be going to the Olympics.

[SVPP]

Catamarans are heaps better than monos for one reason: my wife likes a cat better.

But neither of us wants go anywhere on a lagoon, FPS or leopard built post 2005.

So there you have it, cats are better.