Are all cats essentially pilot houses?

[ArmyDaveNY]

Not all carts.


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[capn_billl]

I would feel real weird not having the mainsheet in arms reach in case the wind suddenly swings across the stern causing an accidental gybe.

Maybe under motor, in calm conditions, and clear horizon, but then why go inside?

[Tom and Maje]

We have a hard bimini, but I had a full enclosure made before we crossed the Atlantic. We'd had a partial one before that kept the helm dry. Even though we have a 2d chart plotter in the salon, we do not use it while sailing.

Maje

[mikedefieslife]

I regularlaly 'keep watch' from inside. I've commented on this on several passages and crossings.

Since it's near impossible to see or avoid anything unlit on dark or cloudy nights, all I'm looking out for is other lit vessels and occasional check on the wind (which I can see anyway) and the waves.

On my boat there isn't much to be gained by being in the cockpit given the piss poor viewing position from there.

In bad weather then it makes more sense to be outside to adjust the lines/sheets. Otherwise, they don't need to be touched on most passages.

[singlespeed]

Only real pilothouse cats I routinely see are motor vessels. Having a "soft" cockpit enclosure to avoid exposure (and the resultant stress on the helmsperson) at the helm is normally a fixture on most cruising boats, mono or multi. I rarely see cruising boats without a person at the helm. All of our "avoidance" course corrections have been at night with commercial vessels of less than 200 feet LOA. They were running with no lights and the AIS transponder off during night passages in the Bahamas, Dominican Republic and the Grenada/Trinidad area can make night passages exciting. Of course, hearing big motors, seeing no running lights and failing to receive a response to a hail on the VHF is not exclusive to smugglers/drug runners. Both the Puerto Rican Marine Police and the BVI Marine Police have done this to us.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Yes, headphones and watching a movie is not "watchkeeping".

Or reading a book, or a Kindle, or viewing a tablet. Especially at night because each of those activities involves looking at a lighted object and thus impairing one's night vision.

[Cadence]

I might go as far as suggesting red instrument lights at night.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

Just generally, do cat owners do a lot of steering from inside? I realize not a lot of cats have twin, indoor/outdoor helm stations, but do you bring your auto pilot remotes inside and steer through the front windows when it is crappy out?

There is not such thing as a generic cat. Some cats are what I call open deck like a SIG. While not offering much protection vis is great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FBxlKpVAgs

Next are what I call open deck with a hard (or in some cases like the older Seawind 1000 open deck with a fixed Bimini). They offer great vis but not quite as good as a true open deck. There is also a good amount of protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh-0pspWJBA

Of course some of the condomarans wind up with the steering station(s) being behind what seems like a brick wall that really makes for poor vis. On the other hand there can be great protection.

In my case I do have a paddle that controls the auto pilot so I can move inside the salon on my Seawind. But as a rule I tend to be at one of the steering stations if the weather is nasty since I don't really like to be on auto pilot if the conditions are bad and usually one or the other of the steering stations is protected. However often I will go in the salon with the paddle for the auto pilot if it is really hot and the sun is at an angle that both steering stations don't have any shade.

[sailingchiro]

Offshore overnight passages: At the helm with red headlamp tethered to seat base. If inexperienced helmsman, I sleep in the cockpit tethered if needed by helmsman. And yes, all wear inflatable PFD's on deck or in cockpit at night.

[billknny]

I have to say every time some version of this watch keeping discussion comes up, it frightens me how many people have discarded EyeBall Ver 1.0 as their primary safety device. Everything else is nice to have, but a proper lookout is still the most important tool, and the only one legally required for all boats.

The logic(?) that "I can't see anything anyway, so I'll just stare at my radar and AIS." is really scary.

Sailing across an ocean is not a video game.

Maybe I am just an old curmudgeon forcing my watch keepers to actually WATCH.

[carraigdog]

The Beneteau Blue 2 has no hard top

https://imagenes.cosasdebarcos.com/b...029849455g.jpg

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by billknny

I have to say every time some version of this watch keeping discussion comes up, it frightens me how many people have discarded EyeBall Ver 1.0 as their primary safety device. Everything else is nice to have, but a proper lookout is still the most important tool, and the only one legally required for all boats.

The logic(?) that "I can't see anything anyway, so I'll just stare at my radar and AIS." is really scary.

Sailing across an ocean is not a video game.

Maybe I am just an old curmudgeon forcing my watch keepers to actually WATCH.

Absolutely right, and no, you're not just being a curmudgeon (which I speak fluently, as many would attest).

I also see it on WAY too many YouTube sailing channels.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Brewgyver

Absolutely right, and no, you're not just being a curmudgeon (which I speak fluently, as many would attest).



I also see it on WAY too many YouTube sailing channels.

And way to many times mentioned on CF.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

Just generally, do cat owners do a lot of steering from inside? I realize not a lot of cats have twin, indoor/outdoor helm stations, but do you bring your auto pilot remotes inside and steer through the front windows when it is crappy out?

As someone else mentioned, cats are more like deck salons than pilot houses. There are a few catamarans that have interior steering stations, but the vast majority do not.

Most cruising cats have some combination of hard and soft biminis and soft side panels that can protect the steering station(s). That’s not much different from many cruising monohulls.

So, the question you’re really asking is whether people think it’s OK to steer from inside (regardless of whether controlling a wheel or an autopilot remote). I expect the propensity is cat sailors to steer from inside is likely the same as for monos - very small.

OTOH, keeping watch from inside the cabin is likely more common for cruising cats as the visibility is pretty good in the salon area of almost all cats, versus not so good for a majority of monos.

As to whether that’s a good idea, well, we have as a starting point CollReg 5 about keeping a watch means using sight and hearing and all available means to avoid collisions. In addition to collision risk, which is vanishingly small when offshore and outside shipping lanes, we have the not negligible risk of sudden changes of conditions, AKA squalls.

Cats are more vulnerable than monos, though a cruising cat with a conservative reefing plan should be able to withstand 30-40 knots of gust. If that’s the case, it seems to be a moral argument. True watch keepers are ever vigilant and undistracted; lame watch keepers watch movies, read books, and/or listen to music or podcasts in between occasional looks around.

I’m in the “it depends” group of skippers. If offshore, outside of shipping lanes, and in trade wind conditions, then what is the benefit of 100% attention that isn’t provided by several minutes of attention every 10-15 minutes, or split attention with a podcast or audio book?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by smj

And way to many times mentioned on CF.

If you are speaking of the cats and pilot houses, I'd agree. If you were speaking of watch standing I don't. New members all the time many with little or no experience.