Anyone sail a Bene Excess cat?

[Hodgdon87]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

Watching their videos and the way they use their saloon, the designers probably could have gotten away with a galley-up design and put a large lounge / family room down in the hull as a good separate area for teens and their friends.

Privilege had a wide range of layout options for the 585. Many of them were built in a galley up configuration.

[marcok]

It depends how many people you expect to have on board. For 2 persons there's more than enough storage for liveaboards. We just loaded up our Excess 11 with everything we need for a full year of sailing (including 7 kites, 4 surfboards, 2 SUPS and a wingfoil set) All this 'water gear' fills one entire front locker but it's relatively light stuff. The other front locker is filled with lines, fenders a code0 and gennaker. The middle locker carries a spare 25kg delta anchor (let's not discuss anchors here and 20 spare 10mm chain AND 2 folding bikes. We have an 10btu AC installed under our bed (running of lithium btw) taking up some room but not that much. €1400 for a new unit btw. We also carry a Zen50 watermaker.

The only thing you could argue is that there's not too much cuoboard space in the galley but what puts my off on any Lagoon are those cupboards mounted to the ceiling in the galley; they block my view (1.90tall, dutch). So overall; you'll be surprised to see how much storage there is, also in hidden spaces below the side of the beds in all cabins.

We do take weight serious so try keep things as light as possible.

If you're considering the boat as a full time liveaboard with 2 kids it may be a bit more of a squeeze but if you wouldn't not take all the water gear we carry you should be fine as well.

Hope this answered your question.

edit: we also opted for the second 300L water tank.

Originally Posted by Oshara

Marco, how do you feel about the storage on the 11? We saw it last weekend and liked a lot of what we saw, but interior storage seemed a bit meager. As you're gearing up for full time living, does it feel sufficient?

[JamesPNW]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

my wife tried both galley up and down. She says galley up wins hands down. i agree.



I only saw motoring Excess 12. It was delivery trip i guess. Looks pretty. Motored okay

Yes. The Admiral decides where the galley located. There is a saying happy wife is happy life.

[rapiti]

When I look at a Beneteau Excess cat, I see a Lagoon with grey gel coat and outboard helms.
At the boat show">Annapolis boat show where they debuted in US, I encountered a Groupe Beneteau VP of marketing on the Lagoon Seventy7 and asked him why EXCESS were not more differentiated from Lagoon. He said, “They are more sportif.” I told him I own a Catana, and hoped the Excess line would take a tilt at Outremer/Catana market space, and he replied, “Oh no, no! These boats are for Sportif APPEARANCE!” Say no more.
Clearly the market wants condos and are willing to sacrifice sailing performance. I know several Lagoon and Leopard owners who thought their boats were fast, until we go cruising together. Even the new Outremer 55 has just queen sized beds. Any larger, and she would be too fat for speed.
If you want to sail more and motor less, buy a cat from the early 2000s, whether FP, Lagoon, or Leopard. You will sail circles around the newer cats.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by Factor

Ah the old galley down furphy. Here is an article in Multihull World that seems to hit the mark on this issue.

Hmmm... an article written by a Seawind dealer with obvious bias is supposed to be convincing? And that part about the helmsman not being a part of the conversation... I suppose if you choose a flybridge charter boat - or maybe a Bali. But otherwise more malarkey. Every boat is a compromise. If you like a galley down... great! But that doesn’t make the rest of us wrong that prefer a galley UP.

[Oshara]

Originally Posted by marcok

It depends how many people you expect to have on board. For 2 persons there's more than enough storage for liveaboards. We just loaded up our Excess 11 with everything we need for a full year of sailing (including 7 kites, 4 surfboards, 2 SUPS and a wingfoil set) All this 'water gear' fills one entire front locker but it's relatively light stuff. The other front locker is filled with lines, fenders a code0 and gennaker. The middle locker carries a spare 25kg delta anchor (let's not discuss anchors here and 20 spare 10mm chain AND 2 folding bikes. We have an 10btu AC installed under our bed (running of lithium btw) taking up some room but not that much. €1400 for a new unit btw. We also carry a Zen50 watermaker.

The only thing you could argue is that there's not too much cuoboard space in the galley but what puts my off on any Lagoon are those cupboards mounted to the ceiling in the galley; they block my view (1.90tall, dutch). So overall; you'll be surprised to see how much storage there is, also in hidden spaces below the side of the beds in all cabins.

We do take weight serious so try keep things as light as possible.

If you're considering the boat as a full time liveaboard with 2 kids it may be a bit more of a squeeze but if you wouldn't not take all the water gear we carry you should be fine as well.

Hope this answered your question.

edit: we also opted for the second 300L water tank.

Yes, very much so, thank you for the detailed answer!

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by rapiti

When I look at a Beneteau Excess cat, I see a Lagoon with grey gel coat and outboard helms.
At the Annapolis boat show where they debuted in US, I encountered a Groupe Beneteau VP of marketing on the Lagoon Seventy7 and asked him why EXCESS were not more differentiated from Lagoon. He said, “They are more sportif.” I told him I own a Catana, and hoped the Excess line would take a tilt at Outremer/Catana market space, and he replied, “Oh no, no! These boats are for Sportif APPEARANCE!” Say no more.
Clearly the market wants condos and are willing to sacrifice sailing performance. I know several Lagoon and Leopard owners who thought their boats were fast, until we go cruising together. Even the new Outremer 55 has just queen sized beds. Any larger, and she would be too fat for speed.
If you want to sail more and motor less, buy a cat from the early 2000s, whether FP, Lagoon, or Leopard. You will sail circles around the newer cats.

Still, comparing the Lagoon and Excess polars, they are night and day.

[tamicatana]

Re: galley down...

After the 5th, or 10th, time going up and down stairs with food, hauling dishes, going back and forth down into a hull...

Consider that the burny thing (stove) is placed well within the floaty thing (hull)...

And even with some decent portlights, galley down is still fairly dark and dungeonlike...

No way galley down, aw naw

But why not charter one of each and see for yourself?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rapiti

When I look at a Beneteau Excess cat, I see a Lagoon with grey gel coat and outboard helms.
At the Annapolis boat show where they debuted in US, I encountered a Groupe Beneteau VP of marketing on the Lagoon Seventy7 and asked him why EXCESS were not more differentiated from Lagoon. He said, “They are more sportif.” I told him I own a Catana, and hoped the Excess line would take a tilt at Outremer/Catana market space, and he replied, “Oh no, no! These boats are for Sportif APPEARANCE!” Say no more.
Clearly the market wants condos and are willing to sacrifice sailing performance. I know several Lagoon and Leopard owners who thought their boats were fast, until we go cruising together. Even the new Outremer 55 has just queen sized beds. Any larger, and she would be too fat for speed.
If you want to sail more and motor less, buy a cat from the early 2000s, whether FP, Lagoon, or Leopard. You will sail circles around the newer cats.

i know some people will get jumpy but from summary of my experiences close to 20 k nm, more truth has not been spoken on CF in weeks!

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Still, comparing the Lagoon and Excess polars, they are night and day.

i learned polar diagrams are crap although i see mostly error on the overestimate side, not underestimating. See our Lagoon 400 at 10 kn true liveaboard loaded. However I am very intrigued by Excess 11 polars.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i learned polar diagrams are crap although i see mostly error on the overestimate side, not underestimating. See our Lagoon 400 at 10 kn true liveaboard loaded. However I am very intrigued by Excess 11 polars.

Not all polar diagrams are created equal, anyway

Real-life empirical polars (with roughly known parameters) from people actually sailing the boats would be informative.

[marcok]

Hi Rapiti,
The Excess boats indeed look more sportive than Lagoons but there some big, structural differences between them. It's also true that the Excess 12 has the same middle mold (which is 2/3 of the boat). Only the side panels of the two hulls are different. I think the Excess 15 also shares some of the key hull parts with Lagoon. However the Excess 11 is a completely redesigned hull by VPLP. At our handover there was as an Excess 11, a 12 and a Lagoon 40, 42 and 46 on the hard. Huge difference in the wetted surface between the Excess and the other boats. Hope this provides a bit of (factual) background on the hull designs and why the different Excess models are different form each other.

Also note that the Excess boats have no raised helmstation so the boom is right on top of the roof which is a much better setup I believe than having a boom up another meter. Same goes for the higher aspect jib that on the Excess 11 is on a self tacking tracks on deck vs to the salon deck as on the Lagoons and the Excess 11 (and 15 I believe?).

This post is not convince anybody, just some extra info on a fairly new boat.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by rapiti

When I look at a Beneteau Excess cat, I see a Lagoon with grey gel coat and outboard helms.
At the Annapolis boat show where they debuted in US, I encountered a Groupe Beneteau VP of marketing on the Lagoon Seventy7 and asked him why EXCESS were not more differentiated from Lagoon. He said, “They are more sportif.” I told him I own a Catana, and hoped the Excess line would take a tilt at Outremer/Catana market space, and he replied, “Oh no, no! These boats are for Sportif APPEARANCE!” Say no more.
Clearly the market wants condos and are willing to sacrifice sailing performance. I know several Lagoon and Leopard owners who thought their boats were fast, until we go cruising together. Even the new Outremer 55 has just queen sized beds. Any larger, and she would be too fat for speed.
If you want to sail more and motor less, buy a cat from the early 2000s, whether FP, Lagoon, or Leopard. You will sail circles around the newer cats.

[Sail IC]

When I saw the announcement I was hoping for the Excess to be for Lagoon, like Catana/Bali. But for what I can see, the Excess is mainly a Lagoon with a different layout.
The spec diifference betwenn the E12 and the Lagoon40 is minimal, probably the same hull too. The displacement of the 37' E11 is 9T, so hardly a rocket ship. The Nautitech 40 is longer, lighter, more sail with a higher aspect ratio rig, so it's hard to believe E11 being faster as claimed in this thread. The performace numbers for the Excess is very similar to the other high volume brands.

But I think the E11 is a great offering in the market. The cheapest catamaran on the market if you like the Lagoon/FP/Leopard kind of boat. The helm placement also free up cockpit space, especially beneficial on a small cat. It looks like a great replacement of the L380, even if the L380 would be the faster of the two :-)

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Sail IC

When I saw the announcement I was hoping for the Excess to be for Lagoon, like Catana/Bali. But for what I can see, the Excess is mainly a Lagoon with a different layout.
The spec diifference betwenn the E12 and the Lagoon40 is minimal, probably the same hull too. The displacement of the 37' E11 is 9T, so hardly a rocket ship. The Nautitech 40 is longer, lighter, more sail with a higher aspect ratio rig, so it's hard to believe E11 being faster as claimed in this thread. The performace numbers for the Excess is very similar to the other high volume brands.

But I think the E11 is a great offering in the market. The cheapest catamaran on the market if you like the Lagoon/FP/Leopard kind of boat. The helm placement also free up cockpit space, especially beneficial on a small cat. It looks like a great replacement of the L380, even if the L380 would be the faster of the two :-)

i think you are bit behind times. L380 cannot use gennaker for upwind. Just not built that way. Excess can all the way to 45 true. L380 stands no chance with way less upwind sails. Even our L 400 pulls 3.5kn VMG upwind in 10 kn true with reaching gennaker and boat full cruising loaded. L380 can just cross 2kn judging from polars.

[Sail IC]

The L380 has a DLR of 152, the E11 185.
Much better performance indication than some polars which often has a questionable source, or owner claims.