Anyone cruising a Corsair F37?

[Factor]

Like to name names then.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I always get confused about the F36, C36, and C37. When Farrier parted ways with Corsair the C36 (not a Farrier design) that emerged got some bad press and was bashed by Farrier.

I used to follow Farrier's forum and got the impression there isn't much that isn't worthy of Ian Farrier's bashing. I got the impression if he didn't design it, it's wrong. If he did design it but a problem developed, it was the builder's fault. The man seemed quite impressed with himself. JMHO

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Factor

Like to name names then.

Ian Farrier is a well known designer with multiple successful boats to his credit.

The Corsair 36 was designed by peeps unknown to me, so maybe it is you who should be naming names; especially since one of the C36 tris broke up in the blue water.

I am more than comfortable taking the position that a well known designer with hundreds, if not thousands, of boats now sailing all over the world has a better track record than some unknowns who basically have a single questionable design to their credit.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

I used to follow Farrier's forum and got the impression there isn't much that isn't worthy of Ian Farrier's bashing. I got the impression if he didn't design it, it's wrong. If he did design it but a problem developed, it was the builder's fault. The man seemed quite impressed with himself. JMHO

The official Corsair position on the C36 was along these lines:

"There were a total of 22 Corsair 36's built, and yes, there were some issues with early examples, all of which to our knowledge have been addressed. This includes the boat in Texas, which I understand is sailing and racing, trouble free to this day."

A couple of boats did break for what ever reason. The insurance report listed the boat as an F36, not a C36; I could understand why this might make Ian mad. He claimed there was a design defect and the Corsair statement seemed to back that up.

While the C37 does seem to be a better boat my gut reaction would be to want a boat from a proven designer rather than unnamed designers who seem to design first and fix later.

YMMV

[cwyckham]

Wow. I really want one of those boats. I've often said that my perfect boat for coastal cruising would be a Tri. I've always wondered about bluewater, though. I wouldn't hesitate to take a cruising cat out in blue water, so I'm not biased by the whole "if it ever goes over it won't come back up" thing. I just wonder about burying and tripping over the lee ama.

Is this a real issue? Or do I have to be a real fool to have this happen? What about burying it in a wave? In steep, chaotic, confused seas it must be possible to basically drop the lee ama into a hole and then bury it in the back of a wave while the main hull powers forward with no wave in front of it. What happens then?

[Factor]

You say this

Originally Posted by tomfl

the team at Corsair is really not in his class.

Then this

The Corsair 36 was designed by peeps unknown to me,

I dont get how you can slam people without knowing who they are

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

I used to follow Farrier's forum and got the impression there isn't much that isn't worthy of Ian Farrier's bashing. I got the impression if he didn't design it, it's wrong. If he did design it but a problem developed, it was the builder's fault. The man seemed quite impressed with himself. JMHO

Ian is a great bloke, His first trailer tri was built just down the road from my house, the first production tri's of his design were a little further down the road. He is an asset to our sport. But yeah, he can be a bit myopic and a little critical of anything that isnt his.

Originally Posted by tomfl

Ian Farrier is a well known designer with multiple successful boats to his credit....

NSS
But - Bang your head if you like. I could also say that Corsair have built many hundreds of boats if not thousands and seem to have a good track record.

[tomfl]

Reality check time.

The Corsair/Farrier breakup has been a topic that has divided folks for quite some time and the same issues keep coming up.

Both the C31 and the C36 have had structural failures that Farrier claimed resulted from design/build errors. Farrier said the C31 was built differently than his design specified, and of course he had only minimal involvement in the C36.

One sore point has always been that while Farrier is often viewed as the public face of small folding trimarans getting the credit for successes and blame for failures Corsair has always declined (or refused depending on your point of view) to identify who was responsible for the C36/C37 design or the completion of the C31. This is in sharp contrast to well established design houses like S&S or C&C who have always identified at least the lead designers on their boats.

It also rubs some folks the wrong way when they are told you can not criticize the Corsair designers because they are unknown when Corsair refuses to identify them, kinda like a Catch-22.

I also think there are some false impressions about Corsair. Boats like the F24, F27, and F28 far and away make up the bulk of Fboats number wise and these are basically Farrier designed boats. On the other hand there seem to have been 15 or so C36 tris built over the years, not what you would call a large number. This low number of C36s makes the two breakups look even worse. While total numbers are hard to come by the C31 structural issues have also been well documented.

So when I see someone respond to my posts like this:

You say this
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl
the team at Corsair is really not in his class.

Then this
Quote:
The Corsair 36 was designed by peeps unknown to me,
I dont get how you can slam people without knowing who they are

I have to respond by pointing out Corsair's successes were based on Farrier designs and he had oversight over the building. Once he disagreed with Corsair over the building and design changes Corsairs were not up to the same level of quality.

THE REASON I SLAM PEOPLE WITHOUT KNOWING THEIR NAMES IS BECAUSE CORSAIR REFUSES TO IDENTIFY THESE PEOPLE IN THE FACE OF SEVERAL REQUESTS THAT THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR DESIGN FAILURES BE IDENTIFIED.

I would also point out that Ian might well change his direction and bash Corsair less and instead come up with new designs. But the interest in the F22 seems to indicate that he has come up with another winner. On the other hand Corsair does not seem to have had any winners since Farrier left. Certainly the C36/C37 can not be considered a great success given the numbers built, not to mention structural issues.

I do give props to the Corsair dealer network, and have to mention Steve and Finish Line as an example. The Finish Line mod to the F24 rudder deserves special mention.

One other issue, not related to Corsair or Farrier, is the problem with getting Fboats (or any multihull for that matter) surveyed. Many times a surveyor who is capable of looking at a monohull simply does not have any experience with multihulls and is unable to assess its condition.

YMMV

[tamicatana]

Originally Posted by tomfl

One other issue, not related to Corsair or Farrier, is the problem with getting Fboats (or any multihull for that matter) surveyed. Many times a surveyor who is capable of looking at a monohull simply does not have any experience with multihulls and is unable to assess its condition.

To continue the thread hijack, I will offer that I recently contracted with Mike Firestone of Port Aransas TX who is extremely thorough, professional, and experienced with multihulls. He's a bloodhound, that one. Fly him in, it's worth every cent.

[deckofficer]

I'm the OP, and have stated before thread hijacks never bother me in the least, so hijack away my friend.

[smj]

Originally Posted by tamif27

To continue the thread hijack, I will offer that I recently contracted with Mike Firestone of Port Aransas TX who is extremely thorough, professional, and experienced with multihulls. He's a bloodhound, that one. Fly him in, it's worth every cent.

Mike Firestone, good for the buyer bad for the seller. A-1 surveyor.

[tomfl]

Thanks for the name of a surveyor.

[Cheechako]

"I dont get how you can slam people without knowing who they are.."
So.... If I didnt like the Chevy Vega, I need to know who the designers were to slam it? It's called an opinion I think... alot of those here. Some people just think there's are automatically right..... others know it's just an opinion....

[Catamarancrew]

Ian designed the 31 as well he fully acknowledges the 31 as his design and many were built while he was still with the company. I have owned my 31 for almost 10 years. Mine is hull #241 and was the first or second built after the split. I have sailed offshore multiple times never ever any issues and certainly no structural issues. These boats are built light and as a result they can have issues, but very very rare, that a boat built literally 10 x heavier may not have. That is the price for true 20 knot speed.That being said again in 10 years I have had no issues. The 36 had rig problems that have been fixed and I have heard of no problems since. The 37 has had zero problems that I am aware of. One goes from New England to Bermuda then the Caribbean and back every year. There is a reason not many boats do the round trip every year. The trip down is no milk run. I did the trip from Bermuda to the Caribbean this year. We left 15 hours after the tropical storm (cant remember the storms name) passed Bermuda in November to get a nice beam to broad reach. We were doing 14-17 average through a fairly impressive sea state. INMO the 37 all carbon is an amazing boat as fast as my 31R with amazing sea keeping abilities, load carrying capacity and a true cruising interior. If you get the chance go to a corsair nationals event you will see how hard these boats are constantly pushed with no failures it will give you a great deal of confidence. Ian, John Walton, and Corsair have all done a ton for very fast flat super shallow draft trailerable boats. IMHO the bickering between Corsair and Ian was business between them and the sailors that let themselves get sucked in to it, well they just like the drama.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

.. If I didnt like the Chevy Vega, I need to know who the designers were to slam it?

Nope. You don't - you are as you said expressing an opinion on the car. But thats not what TOMFLI said, he said

the team at Corsair is really not in his class.

.Big difference. He specifically said that the team were not in Farriers class, how would he know?

IMHO the bickering between Corsair and Ian was business between them and the sailors that let themselves get sucked in to it, well they just like the drama

QFT

Ian designed the 31 as well he fully acknowledges the 31 as his design and many were built while he was still with the company

Indeed. In fact many were built in Brisbane at Ostac before Corsair moved to the USA.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Factor

Nope. You don't - you are as you said expressing an opinion on the car. But thats not what TOMFLI said, he said .Big difference. He specifically said that the team were not in Farriers class, how would he know? QFTIndeed. In fact many were built in Brisbane at Ostac before Corsair moved to the USA.

The fact that there are more Ian Farrier designed trimarans sailing than any other trimaran designer puts him in a class by himself.